RE: 45-70 in Africa.
 

To all of you guys that have been on this forum......

You know by now that I respect your opinions, (and especially your experience), even when we have not always agreed on every detail! Frequently that is because we have all had "slightly differing" experiences.

And you'll should also know by now......that I sometimes have a "slightly twisted" sense of humor! (I'd certainly hope that you've recognized it by now.) And I occasionally can't help myself.....and it slips out! But some of life's circumstances have taught me that if I don't occasionally "take it on the light".......I'd take the leap off a building instead!

This place offers me that respite! I'd like to think it does likewise for a few others.:D

Dave

P.S. I take my hunting seriously. But when "we're around the campfire"...(like here)....it's time to enjoy life's more subtle pleasures!;)

RE: 45-70 in Africa.
 

JamesB

Regarding hoses and chains....

You actually included this additional "all comers" line as part of your first post and it is not being mentioned in your "replay of events post" just above....

"For anyone" .... I think that would include someone like me and others.
".... any doubt...." I think that would include opposing viewpoints.

Especially since we are talking about a game animal nick-named "Black Death"

For standard everyday use by ordinary citizens for taking Cape Buffalo (not doing "stunt" work), I have some serious doubts about promoting (directly or indirectly) the use of 45-70's for such a potentially life altering task.

On the other hand, if this is a "sing the praises of the 45-70" party/thread with opposing views not welcome, then I have made a mistake.

Good Luck and Good Hunting,
EKM

RE: 45-70 in Africa.
 

I quess if you think the 45-70 will not take big tough game then I quess it won't. Just because its already done it countless times don't
make it so. No way in hell did I recommend it for this task and never even hinted that is was the ideal weapon. It was done it is over and certainly anyone who goes there after the mighty black death can use anything they want if its legal. In this case the guy chose the 45-70, it was legal and it did the job. I have nothing further to say on the matter. Much to the delight of many of you.

RE: 45-70 in Africa.
 

Actually, he killed two buff with ONE SHOT! The bullet, a 400-grain solid, went through both shouilders of a bull, then both shoulders of a cow that was standing about 10 yards away from the bull, and both died! I don't believe a .458 Win. or a .416 Rigby would have shown any more penetration than that.

I beieve there is a "velocity window", between 1500 and 2000 FPS or thereabouts, where a bullet like the ones Pearse was using in his .45/70 will out-penetrate any slower OR FASTER bullets of like construction!

RE: 45-70 in Africa.
 

The minimum caliber requirement for African hunting is different in different countries.

RE: 45-70 in Africa.
 

Mr. Pearse's professional hunter also had these doubts - before he witnessed what the load Pearce was shooting in his .45/70 could do! He had previously seen how come of the 300-grain .45/70 softpoint ammo worked -NOT!!-, and had to be convinced that Pearse's ammo made the .45/70 an different propopsition entirely!

It is the bulet, correctly designed for the job at hand and propelled at an effective velocity level, that determines if a given rifle/cartridge combination is going to perform acceptably on any particular type of game animal, AND NOT THE SIZE, SHAPE, OR AMOUNT OF POWDERcontained in the case!!

RE: 45-70 in Africa.
 

I look forward to witnessing the total re-armament of the African PH community and their clients as they abandon their over gunned rifles in exchange for the new 45-70 wonderguns loaded with the new miracle bullets.

Ultimately the actions of the thousands who "actually play the game" will tell the tale and will speak louder than words or articles.

Good Luck and Good Hunting,
EKM

RE: 45-70 in Africa.
 

Edgequello. You are absolulely right.If they had hung the word Magnum on the end of the 45-70, then it would be up to the task. The truth is that nothing is going to still be standing after a GOOD hit from a 405 grain bullet at around 1900fps. It matters not what the bullet is fired from. I believe the wound channels were also larger than those delievered by larger guns when they tested in that area. I would have to read the article again. But your main point is so often overlooked. Its the bullet that does the work, not what its fired from. You can't ask much more of a bullet than to shoot through two Cape buffalo. Not only will it penetrate but it created a very large wound channel.

RE: 45-70 in Africa.
 

45-70 Magnum -- don't quite "ring" right. Since it is aspiring to African fame and case capacities and shapes aren't important; how about .450 Nitro Express 2 inch? It already has got the flange and everything, I'd expect there would be a large surge in double rifles loaded for such a cartridge -- stand back.

:D:D:D:D:D

Good Luck and Good Hunting,
EKM

RE: 45-70 in Africa.
 

Another good old cartridge from the Black Powder Age. The 45-70 does stack up fairly well in the Taylor KO values I looked up a few that we have mented here. The 458 Win Mag with its 500 grain bullet at 2200 pfs has a value of 71. The 416 Rigby with its 400 grain bullet has a value of 57. The 374 H&H with its 300 grain loading has a value of 40. The 45-70 with its 540-550 grain Garret. is 54. Anyone interested in more info on the 45-70 can go to the Garret Cartidge webb site and read the stories of quite a few Cape buffalo. Grizzly and Eland taken with the Garret loads in 45-70 and 44 Magmum. The big Weatherby Magnum cartridges offer some real high KO values.