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270win or wsm?

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270win or wsm?

Old 02-17-2004, 11:43 PM
  #11  
Nontypical Buck
 
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Default RE: 270win or wsm?

I would go for the 270 WSM; to me every little bit helps. Good luck.
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Old 02-18-2004, 01:34 AM
  #12  
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Default RE: 270win or wsm?

I'd stick with the 270. If you don't reload then I think its the better choice. A 270 is a very flat shooter and will kill whitetails well beyond the range that 99% percent of the hunters on earth should even attempt a shot. It is also quite capable of killing even elk sized game with the right bullet.

The short action advantage of the WSM is a pretty much a bogus issue for most hunters unless you are going to be hiking for miles into some remote outback. And even under those circumstances there isn't enough difference in the weight (if any) of 270 wsm and a standard 270 to matter much. The thought of someone being perky and fresh after a mile hike with a 270 wsm yet dragged to his knees near death by a 270 is silly at best. I know it is widely stated that the design of short action bullets are inherently more accurate but again I think the differences are microscopic at best. There are so many factors that affect the accuracy of a particular gun that the odds of this type shell improving yours are miniscule.

Bullet selection/availability will of course be better with the 270 and cheaper. And consider this: the WSM's are fairly popular now but what about 5 years from now? If you don't reload and the popularity of these new cartridges falters then availability could realy dry up. And it could happen. I know a lot of people who pretty much feel like I do that these new WSM's really don't offer much more (If anything) over their longer forefathers. I personally think they are just an attempt to come up with something new to sell guns. I'm not saying there's anything wrong with them mind you but I just don't see the big deal myself. I have shot a 300 wsm and a 270 wsm that a friend of mine purchased. They were Winchester Super Shadows. Both were fine. No problems noted but then nothing special either. If I had a choice between a 270 and a 270 WSM I 'd get the 270. If I had a choice between a 7mm mag and a 7mm WSM I'd get the 7mm mag. Same deal with the 300 mag and 300 WSM. The difference in bullet drop and ft lbs of energy are not enough to make any appreciable difference in any hunting situation in my neck of the woods. Availabilty of bullets, price and the comfort of knowing I had a gun chambered for a cartridge that had already survived the test of time would be my reasoning.
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Old 02-18-2004, 07:31 AM
  #13  
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Default RE: 270win or wsm?

The short action advantage of the WSM is a pretty much a bogus issue for most hunters unless you are going to be hiking for miles into some remote outback. And even under those circumstances there isn't enough difference in the weight (if any) of 270 wsm and a standard 270 to matter much. The thought of someone being perky and fresh after a mile hike with a 270 wsm yet dragged to his knees near death by a 270 is silly at best. I know it is widely stated that the design of short action bullets are inherently more accurate but again I think the differences are microscopic at best. There are so many factors that affect the accuracy of a particular gun that the odds of this type shell improving yours are minis
Have you ever used a short action anything to make a statement like this and hunted with one? Have you chronographed any loads to make a statement like that?



If I had a choice between a 7mm mag and a 7mm WSM I'd get the 7mm mag. Same deal with the 300 mag and 300 WSM. The difference in bullet drop and ft lbs of energy are not enough to make any appreciable difference in any hunting situation in my neck of the woods. Availabilty of bullets, price and the comfort of knowing I had a gun chambered for a cartridge that had already survived the test of time would be my reasoning.
Have you even shot both of them to compare and looked at current load data for either the 7 Rem mag vs7 WSM 300 wsmvs 300 win mag?
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Old 02-18-2004, 11:13 AM
  #14  
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Default RE: 270win or wsm?

Have you ever used a short action anything to make a statement like this and hunted with one? Have you chronographed any loads to make a statement like that
I have both long and short action rifles. 7mm mag, 30-06, 270 on the long side and a 7mm-08, 243 on the short action side. I could carry any of them the same distance and shoot just as well at the end of it.

Ballistically I know the new WSM are hot shooters and YES I have compared the ballistics. I said the differences aren't enough to matter and they aren't. A 130 grain 270 WSM fired from a rifle with a 100 yard zero drops 2.2 inches at 200 yards and 8.7 inches at 300 yards. A standard 270 firing a 130 gr bullet with a 100 yard zero drops 2.8 inches at 200 yards and 10.7 inches at 300. Thats a .6 inch difference at 200 yards and an OH MY GOD whopping 2 inches at 300. You would have to aim both those guns a little high on a deers side at 300 yards so where is the big difference? Zero for 200 and the differences really drop.
Zero the 270 WSM for 200 yards and it drops 5.4 inches at 300 yards.
Zero the 270 for 200 yards and it drops 6.5 inches at 300 yards.

The 270WSM will have more ft lbs of energy at 200 and 300 vs the 270. 2275 vs 1980 at 200 and 1940 vs 1680 at 300. You know the difference between a deer hit with a 130gr bullet carrying 1940 fts of energy and one hit with a 130 gr bullet carrying 1680 ft lbs of energy???? Me either, cause they are both dead as hell with a hole in both sides of them.

Have you even shot both of them to compare and looked at current load data for either the 7 Rem mag vs7 WSM 300 wsmvs 300 win mag?
Well as I said I own a 7mm mag. And as I said in my original post I have spent some time shooting both the 270 WSM and the 300 WSM. Ballistically the differences between these two are even less than between the 270 and the 270WSM.

7mm mag 150 gr bullet. Dead on at 200. drops 6 inches at 300 yards and 17.4 inches at 400 yards. At 300 yards it has 2150 ftlbs of energy and at 400 it has 1865 ftlbs of energy.

7mmWSM 150 gr bullet. Dead on at 200. Drops 5.6 inches at 300 yards and 16.4 inches at 400 yards. At 300 yards it has 2250 ftlbs of energy and at 400 yards it has 1940 ftlbs of energy.

So thats a different in bullet drop of 0.4 inches at 300 yards and 1 inch at 400 yards. A difference in ftlbs of energy of 100ftlbs at 300 yards and 75ftlbs at 400 yards.

The 300 win mag firing a 180 gr bullet dead on at 200 yards drops 6.7 inches at 300 yards and 19.4 inches at 400 yards. At 300 yards it has 2334 ftlbs of energy and 2028ftlbs of energy at 400 yards.

The 300 WSM firing a 180 gr bullet dead on at 200 yards drops 6.4 inches at 300 yards and 18.5 inches at 400 yards. At 300 yards it has 2439ftlbs of energy and 2121ftlbs of energy at 400 yards.

Thats a difference in bullet drop of 0.3 inches at 300 yards and 0.9 inches at 400 yards. A difference in ftlbs of energy of 105ftlbs at 300 yards and 93 at 400 yards.

If you can in a controlled study consistently pick out the animal that got hit with the 2121 ftlbs compared to the 2028 ftlbs, I'll kiss your a$$ under the main redlight in your home town and give you two weeks to draw a crowd to watch.

If those ballistic differences are worth the extra cost, reduced variety of bullet types and reduced availability of the WSM shells (Possibly reduced even more in the future) then knock yourself out. For me I see no great advantage to them.
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Old 02-18-2004, 11:41 AM
  #15  
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Default RE: 270win or wsm?

Todd, your argument can and does apply to pretty much any comparism between most magnum cartridges or standard cartridges. I have found the wsm's in general to be the easiest cartridges to reload ..I don't have a lot of time on my hands to devote to finding the last nth of accuracy but the WSM type cartridges sure make it easy, I find them very accurate and pleasant to shoot. The guns are lighter in most cases and that may or may not be a liability in certain types of shooting . If you have a chance read Hornadys latest reloading manual and you'll see how the wsm's stack up against their long mag counterparts . The ask yourself how much excess recoil do I want my body to take or do I want to walk around with a 26" barrel in the woods when a 24" short mag will do the same work.
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Old 02-18-2004, 11:55 AM
  #16  
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Default RE: 270win or wsm?

I forgot to add the negatives of the short cartridges ...they are more difficult and generally rougher to chamber with exception of Win CRPF and the Browning A bolt. If you have a 270 win mag or a 7 mag or a 300 win mag that you like don't sell them off and run down to buy one of these. If you want something different and experiment then try them out.
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Old 02-18-2004, 12:16 PM
  #17  
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Default RE: 270win or wsm?

Todd. The part about bullet selection is off base as the 270 and 270 WSM use the same bullets. I agree with Old elk hunter and have said so several times, If you have a standard version of one of the Magnum cartridges I would not trade it for a short version. The same holds true with the opposite senario. IMO. I am not a big fan of Magnum cartridges and feel the standard ones have killed every Game animal on earth. However the 270 WSM caught my attention because of its short action and its ability to match and exceed the standard version with recoil that I don't find to tough on my bad shoulder. I agree with you about the weight of the rifles. The Shadow was a little lighter than my 700 Remingtons but not enough to be any determining factor. I can't carry any of them very darn far anymore.
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Old 02-18-2004, 12:25 PM
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Default RE: 270win or wsm?

Hi JamesB,

Your new rifle sounds nice......I'm jealous! Give us a field report when you get a chance.

Back40,

Get the rifle in the caliber you like! There is little enough difference between the two cartridges that maybe 1 in 10 people could "hold the difference" in the field. They are both good cartridges.....they both have their merits. In all honesty.....the .270 WSM looks interesting to me. But if I were putting out the extra cash to get a really nice rifle I'd be inclined to get the .270 Winchester. Simply because it's classic......has and will be here for a long time......and the .270 WSM is new enough we don't know for certain how a "fickle" consumer market will......or will not.....accept it. The .270 Winchester will be here for certain.....long after we are all gone!

Good luck with a tough decision!

Dave
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Old 02-18-2004, 03:57 PM
  #19  
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Default RE: 270win or wsm?

All points well taken. Not trying to start a ruckuss or anyhthing.
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Old 02-18-2004, 04:12 PM
  #20  
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Default RE: 270win or wsm?

Todd. The part about bullet selection is off base as the 270 and 270 WSM use the same bullets.
Yeah, if you reload they do. But the guy specifically stated that he did not.

If you don't reload then you are dependent apon the finished cartridges that the stores keep in stock. When I test fired the guns my buddy loaned me to try I drove to two sporting goods stores and the local wally world to buy some ammo. Wally world had only one type 270WSM cartridge and the two Sporting goods stores had two types. Compare that 5 different types of ammo for the standard 270 at wally world and 7 or 8 different types at the other stores.
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