I guess after reading most of the reply's some have been taken offense to my question. I recently just signed up on this site and had no idea you guys had beaten this subject to death. Yes I have made up my mind on what makes sense and don't make sense. Maybe I should of wrote the guestion like what do think about the new calibers and the use of them. I personally hunt with a 300 win mag it's the gun that fits me and 30 years ago people would have asked the same question about that too. My basis behind the question is related to all the hunters that show up in camp with a new gun because it was suppose to kill better. Well 95% can't shoot the thing at all. And of course that is their faults. So in regards to beating a dead horse my apologies, but I never heard a pro comment other than being new and something to try out why a guy would want to trade in his old rifle for one. Yeah I'm curious about the new market of magnums and have researched them. But the question was writin badly and after rereading it I wanted to change it. Personally I don't care a person shoots as long as they shoot it well.

That is all that really matters.There are many hunters that can't shoot their rifles well and while some of them do shoot the new super magnums, many of them shoot 30-06's or 270's .

[Deleted by Admins]

Honestly, I rarely take my 300RUM hunting. I usually take my 270Win, or 308Win. Why? I trust them, I have loads that are rock solid for them, and they don't weight near as much as my RUM. I have been on this slug gun rut for the past year. Only thing I have killed deer with besides my bow even in rifle counties. I like testing out different things on game these days to see the effect on the wound. I mean come on, any of these things will kill.

Yea, I get a little twitch when I see an 18 year old talking about wanting a 300RUM. Then I think, why do I care. I get more aggravated at peoples new way of hunting. I have really noticed a disturbing trend, which does affect me. Kids and adults sitting over big ole baitpiles. Seems people have lost the fun of trying to predict routes of game.

As an outfitter, if people misses their game it does affect you. So in one sense I see your point. But I think these people would ahve the same outcome if they were using a 30-06.

big country,

Your exactly right about no matter what rifle some people don't spend any time practicing and they miss alot. I don't really understand their reasoning of some of these people. They spend a $1000 or more on a rifle, a $300 and up on a scope, binos that cost more than the scope, a 300 plus range finder, and not to mention a gps. But did they spend more than $40 bucks worth of ammo practicing for the hunt. NO. I make them all shoot before they go out but that don't seem to help much. My name isn't wayne van zwoll so I guess they won't listen to me. So I just do my best to try and help them with what they got to work with. Sometimes I run into some really experienced people who know the whole of hunting and getting ready for the hunt.

I'm proud to say I have one rule I stand by. IF a hunter draws blood then, thats their elk wether its down right there or wounded. We can't find the elk then that elk tag is considered filled.

I like your idea.If people know this in advance they may practise more or at least may avoid low percentage shots.

cherokee, got to ask. Will you not help them find another animal if there is ample time in the week or however long duration the hunt is? I have met some great outfitters that will try to help you have a good time no matter what. They really have an eye out on who might come back and who probably don't. Then I have met outfitters that are looking at the pocketbook the whole time. Cutting every penny they can. They usually don't stay in business long. A good outfitter will have some common sense to evaluate certain situations differently. Like if a guy had not spotted much game, they would take that into consisderation. Or how good of a shot the guy is.

I had a guide tell me to take a shot that was over 700 yards. And considered that "my tag filled". Bullcrap, I passed. We argued about it, and he went back to camp telling everyone that I passed on a 350 yard moose. I evenually did fill my tag. My way. Reason I considered it 700 yards was my leupold was cranked up to 14 power and from top to bottom of the moose filled that little space on scope made for crude yardage estimates. Well past 500 yards. Some guides are the best hunters I have ever seen, and I test them regularly on estimating distances. Most, I just don't know.

[Deleted by Admins]

If I told a person to shoot 400yds and it was a bad hit then that elks life is on my shoulders it would have no impact on the hunter trying for another. If a hunter shoots an animal and is wounded we will spend the rest of the hunt trying to find the animal. An obvious leg hit or muscle hit without breaking bone is pretty tough to get back up on the animal. So with all these in consideration we do all we can to make sure its a great hunt. I've spent days trying to get back up on bulls that have shot in the front shoulders some get away and some the person gets to finish off.

But I never try to get someone to shoot further than they are comfortable, it has a very low success rate. Out west a 300yd shot is not uncommon, I prefer clients within 200yds and resting solid on a rock, bipods, or tree. We hunt all the days we promised to hunt. We take the people were we promised to go unless there 5 feet of snow then it's down to the lower country.

There are alot of outfitters in the numbers game(money), amazingly enough some of these guys have lasted 15 or so years. But your right eventually they get the bad reputation. The past that reputation throughout other outfitters in the state which is really bad. Personally we don't take more than four people in one hunting camp per season. We handle it all ourselves so its a more personalized hunt. I've always went way beyond my duties to make people have a great time.

Will you not help them find another animal if there is ample time in the week or however long duration the hunt is?

To answer that question? Depending on the circumstance say gut shot, shoulder shot, broken legs.
If the shot was in capable distance of shooting, or the client begged to shoot 500yds on his own accord. Then my answer is the hunter made a bad shot and we will continue his hunt looking for the animal he hit. Most bad hits take the animals life wether its in a day or weeks later. I find it my duty to find and get the hunter back on the animal to dispose of it.
In colorado outfitters are not allowed to hunt with clients or dispatch game for clients. There have been many days I wish I could take the hunters rifle and make that third or fourth shot after the first shot hit the animal.
I will not let the hunter shoot another bull or deer if they have wounded the animal to the point of mortality. It goes against everything I am. Misses don't fall in this catagory. We all miss eventually.

We have two archery seasons, one muzzlerloader season, and four rifle seasons. Thats seven hunts. We usually book only 12 to 16 clients throughout all these seasons. That comes down to roughly 2 to 3 clients per season. And like said before no more than 4 unless its a group of the same party say 5 or 6 people that book as a party. I look at the outfitters that are booking 50 to 70 clients a year and I'm thinking thats doing your client bad. Its hard enough for one guide to successfully guide hunters to 8 to 10 bulls throughout the year. That makes ten guides for a outfitter running that many hunters. They usually only have 3 to 5 guides for that many hunters. Thats what gives outfitters a bad name. My father and I guide our hunters and if the number exceeds four then we bring in a friend that we have used in the past.
Outfitters have to work on ethics and providing great hunts because they are paid to do so. The ones that run numbers won't last forever.

In colorado, your not allowed to have a guide with you while you hunt? Is that what you mean? Email me if you got time. I would like to know more about your outfit. My email is [email protected].