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6.5 Creedmoor?

Old 12-23-2017, 10:02 AM
  #21  
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Originally Posted by zrexpilot
developed by thompson center, thought you said the creed was a 250 savage now its a 300 savage, no its blown out 22-250 jeez im done here
they are all the same case.
RR
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Old 12-23-2017, 10:10 AM
  #22  
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Originally Posted by Ridge Runner
you really need to take notes on what your seeing, all bullets are not created equal, but even thinner skinned bullets will penetrate better at slower speeds. High velocity impacts will cause any bullet to fail, I have saw 257 diameter nobler partitions fail to penetrate a gallon jug of water at 500 yards from just too much speed. both rounds you mention are faster than the creed, the only thing that the creed has accomplished is let folks shoot some fairly accurate factory rifles, thats all it has going for it, decent rifles with decent ammo, but not up to par with the good custom made stuff. Its ok, but not the end all to do all, a 260 rem. with a good barrel will shoot rings around it all day.
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i know exactly what im seeing and know exactly why the 300 wsm failed to pass through, this has been one of my arguments against magnums, a 308 standard cup and core bullet at 100 yds pass through everytime 300 magnum same distance and you get a failure, now use a bonded or solid and bam, we now have a pass through, but were now just back to what a 308 was doing. magnums were designed to give 308 performance at 100 but at 300 yds, if used at these distances cup and core bullets work in the 300, and is why i have no need for a magnum, not in texas, i would have to get on my 4 wheeler and drive 200 yds away from my deer to get a 300 yd shot
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Old 12-23-2017, 11:01 AM
  #23  
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Originally Posted by zrexpilot
i know exactly what im seeing and know exactly why the 300 wsm failed to pass through, this has been one of my arguments against magnums, a 308 standard cup and core bullet at 100 yds pass through everytime 300 magnum same distance and you get a failure, now use a bonded or solid and bam, we now have a pass through, but were now just back to what a 308 was doing. magnums were designed to give 308 performance at 100 but at 300 yds, if used at these distances cup and core bullets work in the 300, and is why i have no need for a magnum, not in texas, i would have to get on my 4 wheeler and drive 200 yds away from my deer to get a 300 yd shot
you slam magnums, and the 25/06, but brag up the creed, a cartridge which was originally planned to be a 500-1000 yard target rifle, to shoot deer and hogs at 100 yards? I don't condemn anybodys choice of any rifle, but don't try to convince folks it is what it ain't. only reason the 30 tc outdid the 300 savage is its loaded to higher saami specs than the 300, because of all the older savage 99's chambered in 300, which cannot take the 60k psi pressure, only difference in the creed and the 250 savage also, that and better selection of bullets.
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Old 12-23-2017, 11:46 AM
  #24  
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Originally Posted by zrexpilot
the .30 tc was developed by thompson center arms, it has no parent case.
This is patently false. Thompson center started with the .300 Savage case. It was well discussed and documented at the time when TC was working it up 10yrs ago, and those of us following along bemoaned the lie which was its performance "Improvement" over existing cartridges... Run a .30-06 or .308win at 60kpsi and you'll outperform the TC, with the same bolt thrust and chamber pressure... lots of us were looking around and scratching our heads, asking, "why?"

Originally Posted by zrexpilot
just cause all short action calibers have the same head diameter, doesnt mean they were all developed off a 250 or 300 savage
This too is false. Not all short action cartridges have the same head diameter. There are 3 standard short action bolt face diameters, and a handful of specialty diameters.

But in the case of the 6.5 creedmoor, indeed, the lineage as I described above DOES root back to the Savage case, just the same as the 22-250.

A rose by any other name... the moral of the story is the creedmoor case is a tiny little thing, more comparable to a varmint cartridge than a big game cartridge. As such, those 140grn pills are running on a V6 engine of a powder charge weight, and are really only so capable.
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Old 12-23-2017, 12:25 PM
  #25  
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Originally Posted by Nomercy448
This is patently false. Thompson center started with the .300 Savage case. It was well discussed and documented at the time when TC was working it up 10yrs ago, and those of us following along bemoaned the lie which was its performance "Improvement" over existing cartridges... Run a .30-06 or .308win at 60kpsi and you'll outperform the TC, with the same bolt thrust and chamber pressure... lots of us were looking around and scratching our heads, asking, "why?"



This too is false. Not all short action cartridges have the same head diameter. There are 3 standard short action bolt face diameters, and a handful of specialty diameters.

But in the case of the 6.5 creedmoor, indeed, the lineage as I described above DOES root back to the Savage case, just the same as the 22-250.

A rose by any other name... the moral of the story is the creedmoor case is a tiny little thing, more comparable to a varmint cartridge than a big game cartridge. As such, those 140grn pills are running on a V6 engine of a powder charge weight, and are really only so capable.
creeds case capacity is on par with any short action cartridge, so are all short action cartridges just varmint cartridges ? thats just silly, across the pond the swede is the go to cartridge for big game, the 30-30 killed more buffalo than can be counted, the creed is by far the best short action caliber to date for many reasons
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Old 12-23-2017, 01:21 PM
  #26  
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odd that the buffalo were gone before 1880 and the 30/30 didn't appear till 1892. why continue to throw BS at proven research to try and prove your opinion as fact?
RR

Last edited by Ridge Runner; 12-23-2017 at 01:25 PM.
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Old 12-23-2017, 01:34 PM
  #27  
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this guy says the 30 tc case came from the 307 winchester
https://www.americanrifleman.org/art...ifle-and-load/
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Old 12-23-2017, 01:40 PM
  #28  
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Originally Posted by zrexpilot
this guy says the 30 tc case came from the 307 winchester
https://www.americanrifleman.org/art...ifle-and-load/
that guy is wrong! the 307 was a rimmed case to be used in lever actions. the angle eject win. 94 and the marlin 336.
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Old 12-23-2017, 06:48 PM
  #29  
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Yup, the .307 is a .506" rimmed cartridge, whereas the .30 TC is a .473" standard bolt face.

Sounds like a sore loser looking for a way to deny the creedmoor and the .22-250 have the same lineage.
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Old 12-23-2017, 06:54 PM
  #30  
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read the article finally, they took the 307, removed the rim, thinned the case walls.....at that point it was now a 308 win. case, then they shortened the case.....its now a 300 savage with a 30 degree shoulder instead of a 24 degree, so whats the shortest route to get there?
RR
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