When I was younger I always hunted with my 870 with a Remington rifled barrel and a Simmons scope. Back then I usually sighted the gun in about 70 yards and never shot much over 100 yards. About 6-7 years ago I got an Encore 50 Cal. ML to hunt with for the extra range. I have heard that some of the newer shells/slugs will shoot just as good as the ML. What kind of range and accuracy could I expect with some of the newer shotgun ammo. I am talking about hunting whitetails.

What ML did you shoot that far with and what was the set up, powder, scope, etc. Just curious how far you have it sited in at and how much bullet drop there is at that distance.

today's shotguns and ammo are far better then years past. I for one see really no reason to use a 12ga., for deer/black bear size game today's 20ga. will out perform the 12ga. in every aspect

Care to elaborate? Seems a bit to me like saying a .243win will out perform a .300wm...

In what parallel universe to ours is a 260gr slug going 1850 fps "outperforming" to a 385gr slug going 1850fps?*

While a 20ga is certainly capable of killing a deer out to 200 yards, and will do so with less recoil, it is in no way shape size or form (in this world) 'outperforming' a 12 gauge.

Dead is dead and you cannot outperform dead. Shot placement is key among these issues. However, if it is numbers and ballistics you seek, the 12 ga rules the roost.



*Those numbers are listed specs on 2 3/4 Remington Accu-tips.... 20 and 12 ga respectively.

With my SuperNova / Badger rifled barrel I shoot 1.5" groups at 100y and 4.0" at 200Y using Remington Accutip ammo. Nikon slugger scope with BDC rectical for drop compensation.
In the 40 years that I have been deer hunting with slugs in the NE the furthest shot I ever had to take was this year at 98 yards, neck shot that dropped a doe in her tracks.

I would opt for a 20 gauge for the following reasons

-sometimes cheaper ammo, but when your buying sabot slugs there won't be much of a difference, most of the time.

-less recoil

-dead is dead, as you said. I wouldn't get to caught up in the numbers. Shot placement is key for any gun. If you don't hit the vitals with a 20 gauge or 12, it won't make much of a difference.

Shot placement is key and with the 12ga. there is always flinching even the slightest can put you off by a lot at longer distances and with that the 20ga will reach out further and be more accurate

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Second Post:

So now it's not about the load or shotgun itself being superior, you're supposing that the 12ga is essentially "unshootable" and the 20ga is therefore more accurate because you have a flinching problem?

Yeah, I'm not buying that either.

You cannot say that a flinching problem makes one round inferior. Just because you flinch under a 12ga doesn't mean someone else will. That's like saying nobody should shoot a .30-06, and a .30-30 is far superior. Just because the 12ga kicks more than a 20ga doesn't make it "unshootable" without flinching.

Frankly, it's your own fault if you develop a flinch. A good recoil absorbing buttpad, even a shoulder pad if necessary will tame down any 12ga to very shootable standards, well below a recoil threshold that one would say "with the 12ga there is always flinching".

There are guys out there that can shoot a 338WM or a .375H&H without flinching, I used to be one of them. Admittedly, these days I'm not that well practiced with the big bores anymore, but I dang sure wouldn't say that "a .243win will outperform a .375H&H in every aspect".

I'll concede the point that the 12ga recoils more than the 20ga, but that the 20ga outperforms the 12ga in recoil comfort, which is ONE aspect, but there's absolutely NO reason to say the 20ga "out performs the 12ga in every aspect".

Even to say that your flinching problem makes one round superior to another... sheesh...

I don't flinch AT ALL with my .22lr, maybe I should start using that for deer since my .30-06 obviously kicks way too hard for me not to be flinching with it?

Swamp Collie - Probably the issue is related to the ballistic coefficient of the "fatter" slug of the 12 guage. It is not as good as a typical 20 ga. sabot.

I have shot both a 20 ga. and 12 ga. set up for use with sabots. But only at the range. I sighted both dead on at 100 yards. Then tried both at 50 and 150. The drop of the 12 ga. at 150 was about 2" more than the 20 ga. Not sure that even matters in the field. At least where I hunt, for shots seldom exceed 100 yards.

Groups out of both were really good. Both were Reminton 870's with the Remington rifled barrel, using Remington 3" shot shells. There is no doubt that the recoil of the 20 was less, but again, for me not enough to matter. If I were to hunt with such a set-up, after what I saw at the range, I would go with a 20 ga. simply because it felt lighter, especially with a full magazine.

The two folks that hunt with these two have killed many, many deer .... some out as far as about 135 yards.