Hey guys/gals,

This is my first post. I am a younger, somewhat experienced hunter from the rainy mountains of southwest washington. I know more about how to hunt than what I should hunt with. I' m finally in a position to buy the gun of MY choice and want to get it right. I usually hunt(stalk) elk in steep, oldgrowth/secondgrowth forest so I am less concerned with real long range than I am about reliability and stopping power. I' ve been looking at the browning stalker series and remington 700 or 7 series. I hike far and hi so keeping weight down is a concern. Another concern though is my size. I am stalky but short, so I need a short gun. I am also concerned that if my gun is to powerfull without weight behind it, the recoil might kick my A$$. You guys sound like some real old pros, so any advice would be appriciated.

I recommend you look at three guns, all in .308.

1. Brownings micro medalion A-bolt
2. Remington' s model 7
3. Winchester' s " compact" model 70

Recoil can be rather sharp in these guns so get your self a little shoulder cushion to wear under the jacket.

May you never run out of elk meat.

Sounds like Vapodog has offered some really good advise. You might also consider adding Ruger' s relatively new 77 Compact in SS and laminated stock. It' s barrel length is only 16.5" I believe making it the shortest of the four models. (You actually give up very little ballistically in the .308 Winchester with the shorter barrel.)

If you feel that the .308 Winchester is a little lighter than you want to consider for Elk, (though it makes a fairly good mid range Elk cartridge with a " good" bullet), then you could consider any of the three models Vapodog suggested in one of the newer Short Magnums. Be forewarned though that recoil goes up exponentially with these cartridges in the really light little guns. If you think the recoil might be a problem....stick with the .308 Winchester!

Good luck!

As an afterthought.....If you are not absolutely sure you only would consider a bolt gun?!? You might want to look at Browning' s Md 81 in a lever action. It uses a rotary bolt lock up allowing it to use the same cartridges as a bolt gun. It is very light, accurate, and available in several good intermediate range Elk calibers. It can be had in both the .308 Winchester and has recently been reintroduced in .358 Winchester....a great intermediate range Elk cartridge. But a very real consideration is that in order to get the most out of the .358 Winchester you must be a reloader. I believe that there is currently only one factory load for the .358 Win., (a 200gr. Silvertip or Power Point?!?). For the .358 Winchester to be a really great Elk cartridge it needs something on the order of a Nosler Partition in 225 grains. So in the final analysis....if you don' t reload, (nor are willing to start), stick to a more common cartridge!

At any rate...good luck again!

Thanks a lot guys for getting back at me allready. I am aware that with the shorter, lighter guns I' m looking at, a bigger caliber will add a lot of recoil. I have to admit that up where we hunt, we don' t bang a lot of record book bulls. Usually happy with a 3 point or better(legal minimum). I know a lot of guys hunt with 30-06, and some gun dealers I' ve talked to say 270 is popular. I dont know much about these different calibers, what would be the drop off in power compared to the drop off in recoil from the 308., to the 30-06 or 270.? Thanks.

All three cartridges are nearly identical in both power and recoil. The most noticable difference between the three is that the .308 can be had in a " short action" rifle, thus being slightly lighter and shorter than either the " 06" or the .270. So the greatest advantage of the .308 is it' s shorter overall length. Actually when you compare ballistics tables by picking different bullets/weights/designs these three different cartridges actually " overlap" power and recoil levels. I will say that a primary advantage of either of the .30 caliber on elk is their bigger diameter. With all other things being equal (though they always are not) the larger caliber will transmit more shock. But any of the three will kill elk!

akbound, Vapodog. Thanks for your input. I' m glad I found a solid hunting forum. Looks like one of the best ways to learn this stuff. I hunt with a lot of experienced hunters, but we seem to never really go over this stuff when B.S.' ing at camp. I think all the guys just know what they like and since I' ve never had to buy my rifle I didn' t think about it. The two rifles I' ve usualy shot were heavy 30-06' s. They weren' t mine so I didn' t have to sight them in and only shot them three-four times, always at Elk. When its going down live and the adrenaline' s going, I never even thought about the recoil. Learned how to aim and shoot with smaller deer rifles. Anyways, thanks.

While I am still thinking about it. In regards to the .358 Winchester. My wife carried one on and off for five years in Alaska, (though it was a Model 99 Savage...no longer available new). When loaded with a good 250 grain bullet it made a very good intermediate range Moose rifle and provided a healthy margain of power in the event of " bumping" into big bear. And it did all of this with a recoil level that was more than tolerable for her. Even though the cartridge never caught on well with the general public, many guides and professionals use it and think highly of it. (A number of years ago the Alaska Fish and Game Department thought enough of it to issue it to their personnel for protection against big bears. Good protection...moderate recoil....moderate ranging ability, a very good combination indeed!)

akbound. I think the suggestions are definetely solid. As I stated earlier however, these are not B&C type elk we usually run into. And we don' t have any predators worth needing real charge stopping power. Anyone out there have an opinion on smaller calibers? Just to get some other ideas.

All of the above model rifles are also available in 7mm08. Another " short action" cartridge with power/recoil very similar to the .270 Winchester. And of course being a short cartridge it fits in any of the rifles that the .308 Winchester does. When used with a good bullet the 7mm08 will do anything the .270 will. I don' t know if I' d feel very comfortable going any lighter than those cartridges for Elk in heavy cover. But within that cartridge lineup you can find just about any rifle/action type you desire.

Let us know how it turns out!