bmgillum

A guy asks advice on four different models of guns and most of you are giving him grief about his choice of caliber! He didn't ask for advice on caliber.

Okie76 - I own a Browning A Bolt in 25-06 and 243. Both have killed many a deer and the 25-06 is my "go to" gun. I have a good friend who owns a Sako 25-06 and it is his "go to" gun. I used 100 gr NBTs on the 25-06 and have never had any problem finding them.

I can't help you with the choices you can afford as I have never used any of them. Good luck with your final choice.

Regards/bg

homers brother

When one consults a gun diva's chart (which isn't an apples-to-apples comparison to start with - check the weights), then a manufacturer's ballistics table ("how flat it shoots", banking on it shooting well in the rifle chosen - a load which actually doesn't even fit the aforementioned chart, quite possibly recoiling even less than the .243 selected at 11.0 lbs) to select a caliber? No, I don't have concerns with the .25-06 itself, just the method by which it was selected.

This is the stuff of which surprises and unanticipated consequences are made - hopefully not at the expense of a young hunter who might be better served by something else.

Okie76

I've seen a couple reccomendations to broaden my horizons in reference to caliber selection for the 243, 270 and 7mm-08. I have a few questions about these:

1) It was my understanding through reading stuff off the internet that the 25-06 had less buillet drop at longer ranges than the 243. I have also read that this is subject to round selection, barrel length and rate of twist within the barrel. However, with all things being equal the 25-06 had greater range than the 243. Thats why I ultimately chose it. If I am wrong in this please let me know as I am trying to maximise my sons potential.

2) It was also my understanding that the 270wsm was comparable to the 25-06 in terms of maximum effective range and due to that I had looked real close at getting it. Not to mention it has a selection of larger grain bullets that would be needed; if later in the year we decided to do an exotic game hunt on a private reservation somewhere. After reading about the recoil of the 270 compared to the 25-06, I had to think of my son who is also going to be shooting it and went back to the 25-06. If any of you have shot both the 25-06 and 270wsm and can compare the two's recoil please let me know. I'm eager to know if there really is as big of a difference in recoil between the two as I have read.

3) From when I was a teenager hunting I had heard tales of the infamous 7mm that kicked like a mule and how it took down moose and lions. Stories from freinds and such. Due to that I figured it had way too much recoil for a 10 year old and never looked into it. Is that all myth or is it right for a 10 year old?

Basically im trying to get the most effective range (with the least amount of scope adjustments - IE bullet drop) that has the least amount of recoil as I don't want to scare off my son. It's important that he takes an interest in this.

Seems by what I have read in here that the Thompson Venture is the way to go, so now I just need to get the caliber figured out. I was sold 100% on the 25-06 prior to coming here but you guys badgering me about that has made me think twice about it. If I could get some answers to the 3 questions above that would help me decide for sure?

Okie76

No thanks is needed. I wasn't drafted and I didn't do it for free. I did it for a 40k college fund and to get away from a state that I had never left in my 17 years of living. Add in that my dad said I couldn't make it through Marine corps boot camp due to it being way to hard for a fatty like me ... It was the logical choice. The many times I wanted to quite, him saying that always kept me going.

Afterwards though if I hadn't met the woman I have been married to for 17 years now I guranteed would have made a career out of it. Wives and overseas deployments dont go well together

the jigger

Okie,
First let me tell you that I have six 25 cal. rifles. your choice of 25/06 is a good one, however if your son is not stout for his age he may struggle with your selection.
I had read much of the criticism of the Vanguard rifles. Since it was the only "economy" rifle that I could find with a 24" barrel I bought one($400 OTD). After some trigger spring replacement it shoots half-minute at 100yds with 110gr Accubonds. Now, these are handloads. I know nothing about factory ammo. I do know,however, that whatever rifle you choose you will need to shoot a variety of ammo to find what your rifle likes. From conversations with hunting friends the 100gr Remington Core-locts might be a good place to start.
Thus far noone has suggested the Stevens 200. At less than $100 more
it is twice the gun than is the Savage AXIS. I have used three 200's to build "poorboy customs". The only downside I can see for the 200 in 25/06 is its 22" barrel and that is not a deal breaker for me.
What ever you choose, you need to get it done and get as much range time as you can in order to make a learned ammo selection.
GOOD LUCK and GOOD SHOOTING!!!

emtrescue6

OK...first off in all honestly, effective range for either gun is probably a couple hundred yards beyond that of any young hunter, and many adults. I have taken deer well beyond 200 yards with a .243 and have seen deer, pronghorn, yotes and elk taken with a 243 beyond 400 yards. In all honesty, what is the likely range your son will shoot out to? 200 yards is a long ways, and at 200 yards, the deer won't know the difference between a 243 or 2506 and bullet drop will be very close to the same for both. At the end of the day, yes, the 2506 has more effective range, but both are acceptable out to 400 yards. The 2506 also has more recoil than the 243 and the 7mm-08.

I don't believe the 2506 touches the 270WSM in maximum effective range...the difference in BC alone is significant. I have both a 2506 (Browning A-Bolt) and a 270WSM (Tikka)...the recoil on my Tikka is a little more than the 2506, but not really that much. I think the felt recoil on my 270WSM is less than on my 270 WIN...but the Tikka also has a Limbsaver on it...makes a difference.

The stories you heard were likely of a 7mm Rem Mag (which is as belted magnum)...and not of the 7mm-08 (which is a 308 case necked down to 284...or 7mm). The felt recoil on the 7mm-08 is similar in my experience to that of a 243...I no longer have a 7mm-08, but had one years ago in a Browning BLR and it kicked a little...but the BLR stock designs don't lend them well to recoil managent.

My 7mm Rem Mag does in fact kick like a mule and is unpleasant to shoot....hence it has become a safe queen and recently donated the 3-9x50 Swift it had on it to one of my 308's...LOL


My daughter and my niece both started shooting at age 6 and hunting at age 7...they both stated on single shot Rossi's (great design...for $200 they got 3 barrels...22LR, 243 and 20g...which allowed the to grow from 22 to 243 and hunting with the same gun). Had they not wanted to keep hunting...$200 was a small investment. They both now hunt with nearly identical Weatherby Vanguard Youth rifles in 243 (both of which consistently produce SUB-MOA groups)...they both weigh all of 50 pounds and handle the recoil well. If you are worried about recoil at all, I'd go with the 243, you will loose no effective range over the 2506 with someone that age...as you'll want them shooting at closer range (under 100 yards) to build confidence anyway. Oh...and 243 ammo is often half the cost and more readily available than that of 2506. Nothing worse than watching your child miss their first deer because you set unrealistic expectations, chances of your son needing all of the effective range of a 2506 for a couple of years is slim to none.

emtrescue6

The manufacturers suggested retail price (MSRP) is just that...and no one pays MSRP. Real world prices are much less...plus, if you can say find the rifle online for $100 less than in the store...after you pay the $40 FFL transfer fee, you have still saved $60. You should easily be able to find the Savage 111 for well under $500 in stores like Dicks or Wal-Mart, or even a local store..or online for $450. The Tikka (a wonderful rifle) can be found for around $500 online if you look. The Weatherby Vanguard can also be found for well under $500...and regardless of what your friend says, they are shooters (maybe your friend isn't doing his part?)...guns only shoot as well as the person pulling the trigger. You have many high quality options out there that exceed the performance of anything on your list.

One other thing to note...some rifles, like the Weatherby Vanguard can be purchased with a youth stock (my daughter has one) and as they grow, you can simply replace the stock and keep the rifle. Not sure how big your son is, but a full size adult stock may be to big for him. Just something else to consider. As many have said, he should go handle some guns to find what fits him well.

Sheridan

76,

".....my 10 year old son who has never shot anything more than a bb-gun."

".......... I am trying to maximise my sons potential."



Most shooting instructors will tell you in order to learn the fundamentals, start with a unloaded rifle that "fits" the shooter well.

Practice the sequence of proper shooting form using "snap caps" (also the time for the safety lessons).


Most young hunters learned with a .22 Long Rifle, or now-a-days maybe a .17 HMR = both have zero recoil.

Use ear plugs AND ear muffs.


Even moving up to a .223, .22-250 or a 20 gauge can be intimidating to the first time shooter.

If you take your time and do this right during the introduction period, he will have developed solid shooting skills that will last his lifetime !

Otherwise, he will only learn to flinch; which he will either fight for the rest of his life or just not want to shoot anymore.


Food for thought.

Bible_Man

There has been quite a bit of useful information in this thread. I, too, like the 25-06 round, but don't necessarily think it would be best for your desired intent. Not that it would be a bad choice, just possibly not the best. The .243 is a good round...possibly the best choice in your current situation. The 7mm-08, as noted is quite different than a 7mm Mag. Very similar recoil to that of a .243...never shot one that kicked as much as a 25-06. It is you making this decision, and none of us...you need to make that decision that makes you happy. That being said, if I was making the same decision at the present time, (in fact, I am...taking a 10 yr old from church some this year) I would go with either a .243 or a 7mm-08. I am leaning toward the .243 based simply on ammo price. One of the men that introduced me to deer hunting, although no using a .270 WIN most of the time, killed a deer when I was with him using a .243 at 460 yards. His longest range kill ever. It dropped on the spot. Are others more capable at long distances? Definitely? Does that mean that a first gun in .243 will not do the job? Absolutely not.

Once again, you have to be happy with your decision, so do what you feel best doing. However, it is my opinion that you would be maximizing your son's potential by putting him behind a .243. Good luck, and I certainly hope things work out for you.

Thanks, also, for your service...and way to stick it to the man (your dad)!!!

Okie76

Got it set up this coming Friday after work for my son to shoot half a box of ammo for a bolt action 223, 243, 25-06 and 270. The gun store that I was talking to about ordering rifles and ammo said they have an indoor range and rent all of the above for a fee of 10$ for range time, 9$ per firearm, and ammo cost. Total cost about 75$ but I will know for sure by the time were done what he likes the best.

They are rental guns and probably have had thousands of rounds ran through them but at least he can get a feel for the recoil and weight.

Will post back Friday night with the results. Thanks again for all the advice everyone has offered so far.