country1

No, I do get it.

The OP was talking about the cartridge which I was why I stated what I did. Just because a cartridge is higher pressure and more modern does not mean it is better. The .40 S&W is higher pressure and more modern than a .45 ACP. Everyone has the right to use what they want that is permitted. I will take a .45 ACP over a .40 S&W any day. Paper numbers are just that paper numbers. I will go by actual results vs. paper numbers. What was failed to be mentioned is how some LE went back to the .38 Special after the 9x19 falling from grace.

Nomercy448

First off, I never said that the 9mm was better than the .38spcl because it is more modern. My point was that even though it is a much smaller case, the higher operating pressures allow it to ACTUALLY be a more powerful cartridge.

Personally, I do agree with you about the .40S&W vs the .45acp, although, I don't think it's a fair assessment to say that the .40S&W vs the .45acp debate and the 9x19mm vs .38spcl debate are the same issue.

The 9mm and .38spcl LITERALLY can use the same bullet, therefore the POTENTIAL for energy transfer is exactly the same, so in the end, the MORE energy that the bullet carries, the better. And your own suggested website PROVES that the 9mm carries more energy than the .38spcl. The point in my original post was that the 9mm is NOT inferior to the .38spcl, and in fact is AT LEAST EQUAL, if not BETTER THAN the .38spcl. Given that both the 9mm and .38spcl use the same diameter, for the same muzzle velocity/energy with the same bullet, they'll have identical Taylor KO factors (7.97 for a 125grn at 1250fps).

The .40S&W and the .45acp, on the other hand, obviously aren't the same diameter. The .45acp has 13% larger diameter, resulting in 28% more frontal area. Inevitably, the .45acp has MUCH greater potential to transfer energy to the target than the .40S&W. The Taylor Factor for a .45acp will be 13.67, while the .40S&W only holds a Taylor KO Factor of 10.81, again, 27% better potential energy transfer for the .45acp.

So yes, assuming equal energy, I'd take the .45acp every time.

My wife, on the other hand, shoots a Glock 23 .40acp, because it's right at the upper limit of her recoil threshold. Between a 9mm, and a .40S&W she shoots all incredibly well, but her spit times really drop off with the .45acp (we were fortunate enough to be able to let her shoot all 3 calibers in a Glock before she settled on the 23, my 19, my mom's 17, my bro-in-law's 23, and her dad's service 21). She shoots her SA EMP 1911 .40S&W much better than she can shoot my SA 1911 MC .45acp (similarly sized to the EMP). Some shooters just aren't cut out to take heavier recoil on the clock.

oldsmellhound

Give me an old .25 Auto any day of the week and I'll fell a bull moose