Best home defense weapon?
07-06-2011, 04:08 PM
#31
Typical Buck
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 608
Know the laws for your particular state, county and municipality. Get proper training using the method you have chosen. If you are using a firearm, what firearm can YOU use best under stress and have good hits? Then the next step is selecting the proper ammo for that firearm in the circumstances it may be used - paying attention to possible over penetration.
IMO, the shotgun can be a very good choice. With any firearm, proper training, ammo and practice are key.
There are situations where _________ (fill in the blank) firearm type may not be the best choice. Each firearm type has their own advantages and disadvantages over other firearm types. A shotgun CAN be used very effectively in a home defense situation. Again, proper training, ammo and practice are key. The shotgun was used a lot in Vietnam by the U.S. military to clear enemy tunnels.
I will protect the lives of others and myself. Even when a person is in the right, having to shoot a person to protect yourself or others is not something you should want to experience or look to do. See what you can do to reduce the chance of perps choosing your place or neighborhood. Do you and your neighbors call in suspicious activity? Do you know your neighbors?
IMO, the shotgun can be a very good choice. With any firearm, proper training, ammo and practice are key.
There are situations where _________ (fill in the blank) firearm type may not be the best choice. Each firearm type has their own advantages and disadvantages over other firearm types. A shotgun CAN be used very effectively in a home defense situation. Again, proper training, ammo and practice are key. The shotgun was used a lot in Vietnam by the U.S. military to clear enemy tunnels.
I will protect the lives of others and myself. Even when a person is in the right, having to shoot a person to protect yourself or others is not something you should want to experience or look to do. See what you can do to reduce the chance of perps choosing your place or neighborhood. Do you and your neighbors call in suspicious activity? Do you know your neighbors?
07-06-2011, 07:35 PM
#32
Spike
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 3
Hi everyone, just looking for some opinions here. I'm looking to set up for a home defense weapon. I have a couple that might already qualify, but would not mind an excuse to get something new
Currently I have 2 guns that would work:
1. Chinese SKS, 10 round mag, no modifications
2. Winchester 1200 12 gauge with 18" barrel
I live in an apartment complex, so shooting through walls is an issue, which makes me want to write off the SKS for this job. The Winchester would work okay, but I've had issues from time to time with the first round being pumped in jamming. In other words, for hunting it's not a big deal, but if my life is on the line I don't want something that could possibly jam. And I don't like the idea of keeping a round in the chamber at all times.
So I'm looking at perhaps a pistol or another shotgun that is 100% reliable. Any opinions out there? To be more specific, types of pistols or shotguns that are recommended.
Currently I have 2 guns that would work:
1. Chinese SKS, 10 round mag, no modifications
2. Winchester 1200 12 gauge with 18" barrel
I live in an apartment complex, so shooting through walls is an issue, which makes me want to write off the SKS for this job. The Winchester would work okay, but I've had issues from time to time with the first round being pumped in jamming. In other words, for hunting it's not a big deal, but if my life is on the line I don't want something that could possibly jam. And I don't like the idea of keeping a round in the chamber at all times.
So I'm looking at perhaps a pistol or another shotgun that is 100% reliable. Any opinions out there? To be more specific, types of pistols or shotguns that are recommended.
No Revolvers for me, but if you do go this route then make sure its a double action type, preferably a tactical model.
I stick with ammunition specifically marked for self defense or law enforcement. no home cooked loads for me when my life is on the line.
07-07-2011, 07:17 AM
#33
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Pine Hill Alabama USA
Posts: 1,280
Well I keep a short barreled shotgun at my bedside loaded with 3 inch magnum number 4 turkey loads and a very open choke. I know that we all like to believe ourselves a bad @$$ that would remain cool as a cucumber in a home invasion shootout. But in reality I'm betting that virtually everyone would be scared as hell. A circumstance that just might make precise aiming difficult especially if they are shooting back. A shotgun pattern that opens up a bit provides a little margin for less than perfect aim under duress. Yet at the same time will probably not be lethal to anyone on the other side of a wall.
What do loads like this do to people on the same side of the wall as you however? I work as a RN at a hospital. I see the people who come into our ER with gunshot wounds all the time. Those shot at inside house ranges with loads like I mention above are by far the worst gunshot wounds we see. And the survival rate of any solid torso hit is almost nil. Why? Because that swarm of hundreds of pellets don't miss anything within about a 6 inch circle. A single slug from a handgun may pass within 1/8 of an inch of a major artery or organ and do no damage to it at all. But anything the center mass of that shotgun load of 4's or 5's pass close to is getting clipped. A head shot is instant death. A upper torso hit is a instant stop followed by rapid death. A lower torso gut hit is an instant stopper and they will likely not survive long enough to get to a operating table. An arm or leg hit? Color it gone with a virtual certainty of severing the major arteries, veins, and breaking the bone inside it. This isn't speculation on my part, I see these wounds in our ER. We have people come in and survive handgun wounds all the time. Most shot at close range anywhere in the torso with 4's or 5's from a shotgun arrive at our door DOA.
We had two guys come in by ambulance one night after a shootout. AK 47 vs 9mm handgun. One had shot the other 6 times and he had been shot 4 times himself. All wounds were in the chest and abdomen. They were both awake and talking in the ER although one did died later in ICU. But in all my time as a nurse I have never heard a police report of what a victim or perpetrator did or continued to do "after" he was hit in the chest by a shotgun at inside house ranges. It's a fight stopper folks.
What do loads like this do to people on the same side of the wall as you however? I work as a RN at a hospital. I see the people who come into our ER with gunshot wounds all the time. Those shot at inside house ranges with loads like I mention above are by far the worst gunshot wounds we see. And the survival rate of any solid torso hit is almost nil. Why? Because that swarm of hundreds of pellets don't miss anything within about a 6 inch circle. A single slug from a handgun may pass within 1/8 of an inch of a major artery or organ and do no damage to it at all. But anything the center mass of that shotgun load of 4's or 5's pass close to is getting clipped. A head shot is instant death. A upper torso hit is a instant stop followed by rapid death. A lower torso gut hit is an instant stopper and they will likely not survive long enough to get to a operating table. An arm or leg hit? Color it gone with a virtual certainty of severing the major arteries, veins, and breaking the bone inside it. This isn't speculation on my part, I see these wounds in our ER. We have people come in and survive handgun wounds all the time. Most shot at close range anywhere in the torso with 4's or 5's from a shotgun arrive at our door DOA.
We had two guys come in by ambulance one night after a shootout. AK 47 vs 9mm handgun. One had shot the other 6 times and he had been shot 4 times himself. All wounds were in the chest and abdomen. They were both awake and talking in the ER although one did died later in ICU. But in all my time as a nurse I have never heard a police report of what a victim or perpetrator did or continued to do "after" he was hit in the chest by a shotgun at inside house ranges. It's a fight stopper folks.
Last edited by Todd1700; 07-07-2011 at 07:22 AM.
07-07-2011, 08:29 AM
#34
Typical Buck
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Wide open Nevada
Posts: 515
I used to think of a 12ga as being as good as it gets,energy,hit likelihood,wounding ability,etc. I don't question for a second that a scattergun eliminates any fight. In home we're talking 30' ,less in most of the apt I've ever been in,as a maximum range. Hand guns are far more maneuverable in CQ. They're harder to take away,less leverage and you've got 2 hands on the power switch. The Glaser ammo and the powdered metal"green"ammo are good choices. They reduce the risk to neighbors other occupants and the fridge.
The best of both worlds? How about a 460 S&W or a Judge in a 4" variety? 410s come in every flavor these days from 9s to 9 flat lead washer reminiscent of the" load of dimes" to 3-4 OOB. From those w/bird shot there's a 2 foot pattern at 20 feet ,you'll have an attacker that can't see or breath. Use the" dimes" or buck and ball or strait buck and you get terminal injuries. The 410 will work dimensionally in a 460 but I've not seen it suggested.
The best of both worlds? How about a 460 S&W or a Judge in a 4" variety? 410s come in every flavor these days from 9s to 9 flat lead washer reminiscent of the" load of dimes" to 3-4 OOB. From those w/bird shot there's a 2 foot pattern at 20 feet ,you'll have an attacker that can't see or breath. Use the" dimes" or buck and ball or strait buck and you get terminal injuries. The 410 will work dimensionally in a 460 but I've not seen it suggested.
07-07-2011, 05:31 PM
#36
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 1,834
By code apartments are constructed with a firewall between units (basically double thickness of sheetrock on both sides) and you are unlikely to pass through it with any buckshot.
If you are hoping to defend your domicile with a short fight and as few shots as necessary, a shotgun is hard to beat. You do not need to be a great shot. you just need to be familiar with the weapon and it's pattern. Heck, just racking the round in is usually enough to send bad people back the direction they came from.
If you are hoping to defend your domicile with a short fight and as few shots as necessary, a shotgun is hard to beat. You do not need to be a great shot. you just need to be familiar with the weapon and it's pattern. Heck, just racking the round in is usually enough to send bad people back the direction they came from.
That is what I have in my night time bump in the night weapon. An 870 with saddle mount shell holder, ext. magazine, mag light forearm and pistol grip mounted lazer light. First round is a pigeon load of 7-1/2s, next load is load of 1-1/2oz of BB's and then its all bucksot and slugs after that. Back that up with a Les Bear full of BlackTalons and CorBons. Then I have a few other toys stashed away if I get near them for added zest!!!! I live in a brick home with my nearest neighbor a 1-3/8ths miles away.
Last edited by SecondChance; 07-07-2011 at 05:37 PM.
07-07-2011, 05:49 PM
#37
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 1,834
I 100% agree with you CLD!!!!!!!! Less-than-lethal are only going to either pizz them off and they will continue what they were doing or send them over to the neighbors house to rape, pilage, and destroy them. Boy, how would that sit on your rubber bullet azz!!!!!
07-08-2011, 07:25 AM
#38
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Michigan
Posts: 3,476
I would GREATLY beg to differ!!!!!! When I was with another agency we did our own tests. We had some of our guys build mock walls, to code, and at room distances. Even 4 buck penetrated 2 rooms worth!!!!! Bad ju-ju for the neighbors or loved ones in another room!!!! We then tested the standard 3-1/4dram- 1-1/4oz of 7-1/2's or 6's pigeon load and at standard room distances, bad medicine for the perp, neighbors and loved ones got a pair of ringing ears, no damage though in next room except some minor dust splatter. Basically an 1-1/4oz frangible slug.
That is what I have in my night time bump in the night weapon. An 870 with saddle mount shell holder, ext. magazine, mag light forearm and pistol grip mounted lazer light. First round is a pigeon load of 7-1/2s, next load is load of 1-1/2oz of BB's and then its all bucksot and slugs after that. Back that up with a Les Bear full of BlackTalons and CorBons. Then I have a few other toys stashed away if I get near them for added zest!!!! I live in a brick home with my nearest neighbor a 1-3/8ths miles away.
That is what I have in my night time bump in the night weapon. An 870 with saddle mount shell holder, ext. magazine, mag light forearm and pistol grip mounted lazer light. First round is a pigeon load of 7-1/2s, next load is load of 1-1/2oz of BB's and then its all bucksot and slugs after that. Back that up with a Les Bear full of BlackTalons and CorBons. Then I have a few other toys stashed away if I get near them for added zest!!!! I live in a brick home with my nearest neighbor a 1-3/8ths miles away.
Did your walls have any insulation in them? Were the shots taken directly at the wall? Or at a glancing angle? I wonder how the test results would have gone if you had a man sized gelatin replica like they use on Mythbusters as your aiming point and then investigated how many pellets went beyond and through the makeshift wall.
Good to know. I guess I'll stick with my squirrel loads.
07-09-2011, 08:58 AM
#40
Spike
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 51
In your situation, first I'd spend money on the things that may well PREVENT you from ever having to use the gun.
1. Install extra locks on the front door, locks that can be armed from the inside and install an anti-splinter gaurd on the door. Contrary to what you see in the movies, it is very, very diffcult to kick in a door, espeically one with a high fire rating like code requires for apartments. It's more likely that the bad guy will shatter his leg than it is that he will get in.
2. Install an instant-on alarm on the front door that is armed when you are inside.
3. By your bed, get a corded old-school phone with a speaker phone and have 911 on speed dial. Once a bad guy knows 911 has been called and the cops are on the way, he is far more likely to retreat without a shot being fired.
4. Get two high-quality tactical flashlights. One by the bed, and one stored safely in another location that is easy to get to in case the primary light fails. For obvious reasons.
If it does come to a shootout, it's most likely because of a failure to secure the building and that's the fault of the owner. A middle of the night shootout with a crazed nut-job is a VERY bad situation. The smart money is spent on avoiding it. You already have what you need to deal with it should it happen, but the smart thing is to prevent it from happening by whatever means are available to you.
Grouse
1. Install extra locks on the front door, locks that can be armed from the inside and install an anti-splinter gaurd on the door. Contrary to what you see in the movies, it is very, very diffcult to kick in a door, espeically one with a high fire rating like code requires for apartments. It's more likely that the bad guy will shatter his leg than it is that he will get in.
2. Install an instant-on alarm on the front door that is armed when you are inside.
3. By your bed, get a corded old-school phone with a speaker phone and have 911 on speed dial. Once a bad guy knows 911 has been called and the cops are on the way, he is far more likely to retreat without a shot being fired.
4. Get two high-quality tactical flashlights. One by the bed, and one stored safely in another location that is easy to get to in case the primary light fails. For obvious reasons.
If it does come to a shootout, it's most likely because of a failure to secure the building and that's the fault of the owner. A middle of the night shootout with a crazed nut-job is a VERY bad situation. The smart money is spent on avoiding it. You already have what you need to deal with it should it happen, but the smart thing is to prevent it from happening by whatever means are available to you.
Grouse
