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AR for defense

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AR for defense

Old 04-29-2011, 09:03 PM
  #1  
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Default AR for defense

Ok an AR platform for defense, seems to fit to me. Given in a in town house setup maybe not but for what I have I think it is the ticket.

We have some property we run part of our business out of. It has two large buildings, one around 2000SQFT of shop space, basically a garage with small offices. The other building is a row of bays for storage. In all the property is 13 acres running low and narrow and about 1500 feet long. It is also out in the country surrounded by farm land, no homes for about 1/2 mile.
We have had some issue with trespassers, and some stuff coming up missing, nothing big mainly scrap metal and crap like that, but with us moving some equipment and working out of the more, we find we have a good value of stuff sitting out there. So every night or every other night me and my buddy run out there and check things out.
Knock on wood no big issues yet. My concern is given a situation arises with the size of the property, the space between buildings and even the size of the buildings carrying a handgun alone might not be the best of ideas.

My thought is a AR platform rifle in either a 5.56 or 7.62x51 chamber, 16 inch barrel, vert handg rip, good sight is the way to go. My thought was 20 inch barrel 7.62 since I would get more knock down, longer range and such, but I am leaning toward the 5.56, since it is a lighter, shorter rifle, plus any defense situation I get into ant going to be out to 200+ yards so the 5.56 would be more then enough.

One concern is if I am walking to the main building which is a 50 yard walk through open parking lot(dark parking lot) and someone was to open fire(be surprised how often it happens in our area) I would be screwed with the handgun, sure I can get good groups at 20 feet to 25 yards, but in a real situation, at low or no light, the rifle would give me an advantage.

What do you guys think?
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Old 04-29-2011, 09:22 PM
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Take the proper personal defense courses and KNOW THE LAWS. Have you thought about putting up some trail cams with IR flash to see who is coming and going? You don't have to spend tens of thousands, but a video surveillance/DVR system that can also be viewed over the internet may be a wise investment. If you have an encounter with a trespasser or thief, it is likely you will need an attorney. Try to prevent any direct encounters and look at investing in appropriate surveillance equipment that can give law enforcement the information needed for investigation.
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Old 04-30-2011, 05:29 AM
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Setting up lights/cameras with motion detectors will go a long way in deterrence. That means you won't be shooting people who would normally surrender right away. Most people are easily deterred, and that is the best solution.

There are always some you need to worry about, but you have to weigh the risks to the rewards of dealing with intruders. I agree that you need to check out your local laws first. Find out what rights you have. The biggest thing here is, it sounds like your business isn't on the property where you live. That changes legal rights.

I'm not saying don't defend what is yours, but don't go to jail for doing so either.

Also, take self defense classes. They are worth every penny, and remember to practice with your firearm. It may seem stupid, but it's not. Getting into any situation with the adrenaline pumping changes the dynamics immediately.
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Old 04-30-2011, 06:21 AM
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I am checking into the laws today. I know not living their changes things, which might not be a issue much longer since we have been discussing moving me out there as a deterrent, better someone there on a nightly basis.
Not planning on just shooting someone for trespassing, more those that one really needs to worry about, the meth heads, true thieves, and the just plan felons.

We have discussed the cameras, and lights just takes some time. Practice is a most or any gun, luckily I like to shoot, in fact setting up a 200 yard range on the property I am talking about.

I have been thinking about a defense course, I know they do some down in evansville, in fact my buddy and I was discussing it yesterday, he just sent in for his permit and would like to take one
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Old 05-05-2011, 11:10 AM
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A word of advice. If you take pot-shots at someone in the dark across a long distance (50yrds), even if they opened fire first, a good prosecutor will eat you alive. Proximity is a large part of "perceived mortal threat". Retreat is the only legal, appropriate response to that scenario. Carrying an AR-15 every night across your parking lot on the incredibly LONG odds that someone would attack you from a long distance will look like premediation, and a prosecutor will EASILY convince a jury that your returned fire was unjustified, let alone the fact that you were packing an AR-15, aka, ASSAULT RIFLE. This thread on the internet would also work against you, because THIS would qualify as premeditation in the eyes of the prosecution. You were carrying a "highly lethal assault weapon" and PLANNING to use it on someone...

Don't just take my word for it though. Do some research regarding people that SHOT BACK against drive by shootings. Even though they were taking fire and defending themselves, these people get charged and even convicted. Regardless of murder, or attempted murder charges, there are wreckless endangerment charges, weapons discharge charges, etc etc.

I'm not sure what your deal is, but it REALLY seems like you just want to shoot someone. Whether it's people trespassing on your new property, or breaking into your house twice a night, or a guy touching your gun in walmart, or a guy that works for your dad that just peeved you off, it REALLY seems to me like you just want to shoot someone... Not gonna work well for you in court if you ever actually DO need to justifiably defend yourself.
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Old 05-05-2011, 01:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Nomercy448 View Post
A word of advice. If you take pot-shots at someone in the dark across a long distance (50yrds), even if they opened fire first, a good prosecutor will eat you alive. Proximity is a large part of "perceived mortal threat". Retreat is the only legal, appropriate response to that scenario. Carrying an AR-15 every night across your parking lot on the incredibly LONG odds that someone would attack you from a long distance will look like premediation, and a prosecutor will EASILY convince a jury that your returned fire was unjustified, let alone the fact that you were packing an AR-15, aka, ASSAULT RIFLE. This thread on the internet would also work against you, because THIS would qualify as premeditation in the eyes of the prosecution. You were carrying a "highly lethal assault weapon" and PLANNING to use it on someone...

Don't just take my word for it though. Do some research regarding people that SHOT BACK against drive by shootings. Even though they were taking fire and defending themselves, these people get charged and even convicted. Regardless of murder, or attempted murder charges, there are wreckless endangerment charges, weapons discharge charges, etc etc.

I'm not sure what your deal is, but it REALLY seems like you just want to shoot someone. Whether it's people trespassing on your new property, or breaking into your house twice a night, or a guy touching your gun in walmart, or a guy that works for your dad that just peeved you off, it REALLY seems to me like you just want to shoot someone... Not gonna work well for you in court if you ever actually DO need to justifiably defend yourself.
Many good points here. You will NEVER find a justifiable self-defense situation where you are firing at ranges that you are speaking of. You said that they would be less then 200 yards! I'm sorry, but this is not at all a sensible way to be thinking. A pistol will be more than sufficient for any true self defense situations you may encounter. Perhaps it would even be better for you to simply take some pepper spray with you.
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Old 05-05-2011, 01:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Bible_Man View Post
...Perhaps it would even be better for you to simply take some pepper spray with you...
Or a big stick and a cell phone...

I guarantee if you shoot someone from 200yrds you will be the one going to jail. I also bet that whoever is stealing "scrap metal" from ya won't be willing to get into a gunfight over it...nor should you.
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Old 05-06-2011, 01:06 AM
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This would not be a self defense scenario no matter how you looked at it. Someone stealing your property (scrap metal) does not warrant lethal force. Like Nomercy said the DA would have no problem convicting you on murder charges if you were to shoot someone on your property that was at a distance over say 7yds. That is the legal distance where shooting someone in self defense is justifiable. Anything over that and you are looking like you were intentionally out for blood.
I understand your frustrations as to me there are few things in this world that are lower than a thief. I have had a vehicle and other personal property stolen and I would have love to have been able to shoot the SOBs. Unfortunately it is against the law to do it.
Your best is to install cameras and motion sensing lights. Even posting one of those signs that say smile you're on camera works. The contractor on one of my projects was having problems with theft and he posted a few of those signs up and the theft stopped. I asked him if he really had the cameras and he just said no but they don't know that I don't have them.
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Old 05-06-2011, 10:37 AM
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Unfortunately, in many states the laws are not geared toward law-abiding citizens defending themselves or their property. If you are going to carry something, I would go with a short-barreled shotgun for these reasons:
1. Just the sound of pumping a shotgun's action has been proven effective in scaring marauders off in many cases.

2. It is a short range weapon, unlikely to harm someone at long range which could get you in trouble.

3. If someone is directly threatening your life at close range, a 12 gauge with buckshot should put a stop to them quick.

4. If you do go to court, using a shotgun sounds better for the defense than arming yourself with a "rapid fire death assault rifle" which the prosecutor may argue
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Old 05-06-2011, 10:50 AM
  #10  
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Originally Posted by Palladin8 View Post
This would not be a self defense scenario no matter how you looked at it. Someone stealing your property (scrap metal) does not warrant lethal force. Like Nomercy said the DA would have no problem convicting you on murder charges if you were to shoot someone on your property that was at a distance over say 7yds. That is the legal distance where shooting someone in self defense is justifiable. Anything over that and you are looking like you were intentionally out for blood.
While I agree that they need a good video system in place, your suggestion that it is against the law to shoot someone who is stealing your property is not correct in all jurisdictions.

And that "7 yards" thing is just plain nonsense. It is ALWAYS situational. Are you really suggesting that someone who is threatening you with a pistol from 20 yards , or 10 yards, or 22 feet away is not fair game?
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