good by Remington
02-03-2011, 10:38 AM
#41
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Where the ducks don't come no more
Posts: 4,420
02-03-2011, 10:47 AM
#42
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Orange county, NY
Posts: 2,949
Hard to argue with much of what you wrote. My only issue is with the above. The B&C stock on the EW is an over $300 stock at least the last time I checked when I was pricing going this route.
It's an awesome stock. Much better than the typical B&C offerings. And minus the snob factor I'd put it up there with a McMillan easily.
Also I don't know how many of the new Winchesters you've shot but I've own two and handloaded for both. After the initital break in, both have shot 3/4 moa with every reload combination I put through them. Beyond that they both nearly shoot to the same POI for similar powders etc....
I have been very impressed. From what I've been reading on other forums folks are seeing about the same performance. At least those that are reporting.
So it's not a Lija barrel but it's a factory barrel that shoots pretty close to custom.
Tom
It's an awesome stock. Much better than the typical B&C offerings. And minus the snob factor I'd put it up there with a McMillan easily.
Also I don't know how many of the new Winchesters you've shot but I've own two and handloaded for both. After the initital break in, both have shot 3/4 moa with every reload combination I put through them. Beyond that they both nearly shoot to the same POI for similar powders etc....
I have been very impressed. From what I've been reading on other forums folks are seeing about the same performance. At least those that are reporting.
So it's not a Lija barrel but it's a factory barrel that shoots pretty close to custom.
Tom
I fondeled a EW model 70 @ gander a few months back and was very impessed, I loved the fluted barrel and the action was butta, if it wasnt chamberd in 270wsm I mighta pulled out the plastic.
I just figure all the B&Cs were pretty much the same , I had a duramax on my savage 10ml, it was pretty nice for a 100$.
02-03-2011, 11:52 AM
#43
Nontypical Buck
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Texas
Posts: 2,695
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i made my 2008' pencil barreled, un bedded, 700mtlss, shoot pretty good, by opening the box, and mounting a scope. Attachment 15744 but yeah i can see your point, i mean look at this thing pure junk!
Attachment 15745 the vg has a custom barrel, bedded stock and blueprinted action, huh?
basically yes, a vg action mated to a b&c stock ( sub moa) is perfection the b&c has full aluminum skeleton mated to a flat reciever with huge lugs makes it solid, no bedding required, metal to metal is as good as it gets , nothing better, the vanguard does have a custom barrel compared to a rem, the rem is button rifling the vg is cold hammer forged, nothing better, and i believe its a krieger barrel.
action doesnt need blue printing as it comes from the factory near perfection,
rems need work and still cant compare to a vg or win action
vg's dont
thats the point of this thread.
lets not get carried away about the vanguard, it has a injection molded tupperware stock ,the higher end vgmodels and the new 1000$ winchesters, use a 100$ b&c kevlar stock. Were not talking micmillian stocks and lilja barrels here.
no but it is a b&c stock and kreiger barrell
btw didnt you buy a vg zrex? I seem to remember you put a aftermarket stock on it, why would you replace such a "quality stock"?
you know im not talking bout the vg stock, that ones less than desirable to even look at
and ill grant you the rems sure are nice to look at, prolly some of the nicest looking around, to bad that all its got
Attachment 15745 the vg has a custom barrel, bedded stock and blueprinted action, huh?basically yes, a vg action mated to a b&c stock ( sub moa) is perfection the b&c has full aluminum skeleton mated to a flat reciever with huge lugs makes it solid, no bedding required, metal to metal is as good as it gets , nothing better, the vanguard does have a custom barrel compared to a rem, the rem is button rifling the vg is cold hammer forged, nothing better, and i believe its a krieger barrel.
action doesnt need blue printing as it comes from the factory near perfection,
rems need work and still cant compare to a vg or win action
vg's dont
thats the point of this thread.
lets not get carried away about the vanguard, it has a injection molded tupperware stock ,the higher end vgmodels and the new 1000$ winchesters, use a 100$ b&c kevlar stock. Were not talking micmillian stocks and lilja barrels here.
no but it is a b&c stock and kreiger barrell
btw didnt you buy a vg zrex? I seem to remember you put a aftermarket stock on it, why would you replace such a "quality stock"?
you know im not talking bout the vg stock, that ones less than desirable to even look at
and ill grant you the rems sure are nice to look at, prolly some of the nicest looking around, to bad that all its got
02-03-2011, 12:22 PM
#44
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Orange county, NY
Posts: 2,949
The sub MOA is fine rifle but its more like 800 bucks, the 400$ vanguards aint all that. The MOA sure has a few nice features, the remington 700 doesnt, but my 700 also shoots "MOA" and is a joy to carry and look at too, so Ill stick w/ it.
Personally though, I think the best value in hunting rifles out there now is the savage 112 with the accustock. for about 600$ you get a SS lightweight rifle thats shoots awsome and has just about every nice feature youd want.
Personally though, I think the best value in hunting rifles out there now is the savage 112 with the accustock. for about 600$ you get a SS lightweight rifle thats shoots awsome and has just about every nice feature youd want.
02-03-2011, 12:40 PM
#45
Banned
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 273
Im curious here... You've been all over the net bashing Nikon scopes and you've never owned one... but you did look thru one owned by your mother's brother's sister's uncle's cousin's stepbrother. How many Remington's do you own or have you owned? Who is putting the sugar in the Windex? Because you sure are doing a lot of window licking...
What cracks me up is his shining endorsement of vortex scopes but again, never has owned one.
02-03-2011, 08:55 PM
#46
Fork Horn
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Slippery Rock, Pa.
Posts: 393
The only person that would do that are competition shooters that want super tight tolerances for rifles that won't get dirty or see conditions that would cause the bolt to stick, like dirt, dust, water and cold weather or a lazy owner that never cleans it.
It takes alot of machine time to make a gun of that quality and only charge $399, and that doesn't set off any alarms to you. Interesting.
They are copied because it the best design out there. simple or easy does not always mean junk, i've seen stevens rifles that blow big holes in your statement. The TC Precision Hunter made the same way as a vanguard and is “certified to deliver sub-minute accuracy right out of the box.” This is Theoretically proven by a target included with each new Precision Hunter, this one is a print-out from the T/C computer-aided acoustic targeting system. There not even physically tested!
I'm not a mechanic but i bought a 6yr ford, the first one i ever owned, and had the oil pump lock up and wipe the main bearings out but i still bought another because it's a ford and still the best out there. Would i buy a winchester or a savage or vanguard? Yes, they are nice rifles but my #1 pick is Remington because, like in the commercial, it's ever let me down.
action trued and squared, replace the barrel, bed the action, your now to the quility standard of a factory vanguard.
One reason the action is easy to copy is because its round and can be put in a lathe, not many builders have a CNC machine, and thats how vanguard and winchesters are made, in a CNC, they both have a flat base reciever, with huge square lugs, lay it in a quality stock and you have perfect reciever to stock fitment, oh wait the sub moa already does that, right from the factory.
99.9999 % of us arent gun builders, so for us factory guns are all were going to own, so we should pick one thats of quality, Rem aint one of them.
02-03-2011, 09:21 PM
#47
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Baileysville, WV
Posts: 2,925
LoL Big.... HNI is a great place to pack in the knowledge in a hurry! Only place on the net a feller can go from red hat to superintendent in 6 months 
02-03-2011, 10:08 PM
#48
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 1,519
Im curious here... You've been all over the net bashing Nikon scopes and you've never owned one... but you did look thru one owned by your mother's brother's sister's uncle's cousin's stepbrother. How many Remington's do you own or have you owned? Who is putting the sugar in the Windex? Because you sure are doing a lot of window licking...
Last edited by hometheaterman; 02-03-2011 at 10:19 PM.
02-04-2011, 02:23 AM
#49
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: VA, USA
Posts: 3,116
The only person that would do that are competition shooters that want super tight tolerances for rifles that won't get dirty or see conditions that would cause the bolt to stick, like dirt, dust, water and cold weather or a lazy owner that never cleans it.
It takes alot of machine time to make a gun of that quality and only charge $399, and that doesn't set off any alarms to you. Interesting.
They are copied because it the best design out there. simple or easy does not always mean junk, i've seen stevens rifles that blow big holes in your statement. The TC Precision Hunter made the same way as a vanguard and is “certified to deliver sub-minute accuracy right out of the box.” This is Theoretically proven by a target included with each new Precision Hunter, this one is a print-out from the T/C computer-aided acoustic targeting system. There not even physically tested!
I'm not a mechanic but i bought a 6yr ford, the first one i ever owned, and had the oil pump lock up and wipe the main bearings out but i still bought another because it's a ford and still the best out there. Would i buy a winchester or a savage or vanguard? Yes, they are nice rifles but my #1 pick is Remington because, like in the commercial, it's ever let me down.
It takes alot of machine time to make a gun of that quality and only charge $399, and that doesn't set off any alarms to you. Interesting.
They are copied because it the best design out there. simple or easy does not always mean junk, i've seen stevens rifles that blow big holes in your statement. The TC Precision Hunter made the same way as a vanguard and is “certified to deliver sub-minute accuracy right out of the box.” This is Theoretically proven by a target included with each new Precision Hunter, this one is a print-out from the T/C computer-aided acoustic targeting system. There not even physically tested!
I'm not a mechanic but i bought a 6yr ford, the first one i ever owned, and had the oil pump lock up and wipe the main bearings out but i still bought another because it's a ford and still the best out there. Would i buy a winchester or a savage or vanguard? Yes, they are nice rifles but my #1 pick is Remington because, like in the commercial, it's ever let me down.
Read the second paragraph in this link:
http://www.longrangehunting.com/arti...r-review-1.php
Last edited by VAhuntr; 02-04-2011 at 03:08 AM.
02-04-2011, 04:11 AM
#50
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Southeast PA
Posts: 1,490
My Dad is tougher than your Dad! He eats nails for breakfast!!
Choices, that's what's awesome about where we live, we can all have choices and express our views. You gotta love that!!
Choices, that's what's awesome about where we live, we can all have choices and express our views. You gotta love that!!