Semi auto Deer Rifle
 

Hey all, im wanting a new deer rifle. I want it to be a semi auto or pump in 270 or 308. Im on a budget though no more than 500 dollers. Let me know what type of guns you guys know of in this price range.

Browning BAR,
perhaps used? Is there any other semi-auto on the market? haha.

I have a .270 that shoots great, but I'd consider a short action like the 7mm-08, 308, .243, maybe even a 270wsm.

3 letters -----> B A R

Bar = best autoloader

$500 = very used Bar

Remington 742 Woodsmaster, had one for a few years. It was easy to shoot, had very manageable recoil (it was a .308).

As was already suggested, the Browning BAR.

Those are the only two I have any experience with.

I have a BAR, and 7400. Both work great. Of course the BAR looks prettier, and cycles much better. But I bet I killed more deer than you can put in a railroad car with that 7400. 7400 has an inherent problem of changing POI with the forearm screw.
BARs can be finicky with forearm fit also.

I got both to shoot under 1.5MOA.

The older Remington 740's and 742's have issues with the guns wearing out prematurely, so I'd stay away from them if it was me.

The Remington 7400's don't seem to have this issue and seem to be pretty decent guns. This may be the only thing you can find in your price range unless you luck up on a cheap BAR. The 7400's aren't bad, but not great either. I've got a couple of hunting of hunting buddies that have these, and they don't seem to be any more accurate than the BAR's or R1's. I wouldn't hesitate to buy one of these, I just think the Browning is a nicer rifle.

The Benelli R1's and Browning BAR's are probably the best two options in the semi auto world. Contrary to what Big Country tells you, your semi auto will probably not be the most accurate thing in the world. I've learned that with my BAR that 1.5-2" groups are about as good as it gets and that's with bullets it loves. This is for Pre 93 Bars without the BOSS. Ones it doesn't like produce huge groups. 98% of the guys I've talked to claim that this is all you can expect from a BAR and Browning says 2" is the normal for them. Yet somehow Big Country seems to think they are all sub moa guns, yet they are often not. This accuracy is plenty fine for deer hunting which is what they are made for, but it's nothing great either. IMO they are great hunting rifles, and if that's what you want it for these are a good choice. These two are far better in quality than the Remington 7400, but at the same time, they are usually out of your price range.

save up and get a browning BAR. never had a problem with them. good quality and accurate out of the box with factory ammo ( iron sights ). i have owned 2 rem 7400's and 2 rem 7600's. the semi's jammed and both became one shot's. tried several weights brands of ammo and mag's.

my browning safari topped with a VX-II 2-7X33mm will shoot 165gr. sierra gamekings .582" at 100yds all day. it will also shoot rem 180gr. psp under 1" aswell.

Save a bit longer and get the BAR. I had two Remington 742's. Notice said had. I wouldn't own another one on a bet.

I have a 742 that is 40 years old that is still shooting well and killed two deer so far this year with. My BIL has a 740 that is obviously older and still is shooting fine and taking deer also. My BIL's brother has a 742 that has had problems, but he doesn't clean it.

Semi-autos require a little bit more care and maintenance because they have more moving parts than say a bolt action. If they aren't maintained, they will wear out quickly.

I had a BAR in 7mm RM that I traded a few years ago. I wish I had it back.

With that said, if I was going to buy a new rifle, I would probably go with a pump action instead of a semi auto.

The bolts on them were made of harder metal than the receiver rails it rides on. This overtime chewed up the rails, and caused them to become jam o matics and essentially worn out. They also have a reputation for getting chewed up where the locking lugs on the bolt hit the receiver. If you have one that works, I'd keep it. However, if buying one I'd be very hesitant, and I'd be very careful when inspecting the gun, and I'd prefer to shoot it before buying it.

I have a BAR in 30-06 and wouldn't trade it for anything. I absolutely love it. But it doesn't group real tight. It does have the BOSS technology but to be honest, I have never actually tried dialing in my load. I am planning to do that this next year though. But since it is a hunting gun, it only has to be minute-of-deer. I have had it for 15 years or so and have no plans to get rid of it. May have another gun one day, but will not be getting rid of this one to do it.

My brother had a Remington 7400 (or was it a 7600?). Anyway, it was a Rem semi-auto and it would shoot tighter than my gun. He didn't use it much and has since sold it as he doesn't hunt now.

As for hunting with it, me and Mr. BAR have a special relationship. I point him at game and he knocks them down. ;) Something about the gun, the fit, how it points, etc, but I just seem to be a pretty good shot with it even at moving deer and coyotes. And I don't target shoot much, so it must be the gun. :D

Interesting. Could you please show where I said all BAR's are subMOA guns? If you can't, that means your a freaking POS liar. If you can, show me where I have said they are all subMOA, then I will promply appoligize.

So, consider this a test of your integrity. I think we all know what it is. But it will be fun to watch you try.

I realize you got your feelings hurt. Calling a spade a spade usually does that. But sooner or later, you got to dry those eyes and be a man.:rock:

Never heard of or seen this on 740s or 742s. I have heard of the metal issue with Mossberg shotguns in the past but not with Remis. My information is anectodal based on knowing a lot of 742 owners in my part of the country. I don't know where your information on their reputation comes from. Please provide support for this. I'm interested to know.

http://www.wisnersinc.com/additional...7407427400.htm

About halfway down that page it talks about the issue. There are lots more articles and discussion board posts on it if you do a google search, but imo that's one of the better ones I've seen.

Most of the guys I've talked to that have had these issues have been on forums with one guy in person. I don't know anyone else that's had any of these, as all of the guys I hunt with that use semi auto's either use 7400's or BAR's. I was very close to buying a 740 at one point which is what made me research them. That's how I found the many complaints about the receiver rails being too soft and getting damaged over time.

+1

I have a 742 that my Dad passed on to me. Dad took a boatload of deer with it, I took several with it and my son got his first with it this year. Not the most accurate rifle in the world by any stretch but it has been dependable. It has also been well maintained but I will admit that it does not get shot a whole lot anymore.

Thanks for the link, although I'm not familiar with the website or the expertise of the person posting that information.

I guess I'll just keep on shooting my 742 until it breaks and I can't repair it. Maybe it will last another forty years.

I do disagree with the assertation from the Wisner's site that the 742 isn't a good inclement weather rifle. I use mine mainly in a humid climate as a foul weather rifle and never had a problem. Again, it is always cleaned thoroughly after use.

I had a 742 in .308 in the late 80's...before there were so many "premium" factory loads on the market. The gun functioned flawlessly with any factory ammo....was'nt a tack driver, but plenty good enough for hunting. The only time this gun malfunctioned was with handloads. I found that I had to run my brass through the full length die twice to bring them down enough to seat properly in the chamber, and still would occasionally have a misfire. When you buy these guns new, they come with a chamber brush, for a good reason.....the chamber (at least on my gun) is very tight. I only got rid of it because I wanted to hunt with a certain bullet that was not offered in a factory load then, and it was'nt reliable enough for me with the handloads.I honestly wish I had it back, with all of the factory offerings now avaliable. I put more than 1000 rounds through that gun in less than a year, and aside from the handload issue....never had a problem with it.
On another note... I have a friend that has one (can't remember if its a 742 or a 7400) and has killed more deer with it than should be allowed, he would'nt think of using anything else.
All that being said.....yes, the BAR is probably better made, a little more accurate, and is certainly better looking, but they cost more. I've never owned one, but have had the privledge of using them in 7 mag and 243....both felt better to me than my old Remmy.
In the end... it all depends on if you want to stick to your $500 price. It'll be hard to find a Browning for under that.
Also, since you metioned "pump action" .... I do not have first hand knowledge on the 762/7600 Rem, but have heard that they are a little more accurate on average and don't have the feeding problems that i had with handloads because the pump action has more force to seat the cartridge than the recoil spring on the auto-loaders.
Hope my experience helped a little

HTM, you seem to have more friends that most people.
They all seem to have had problems or positive experiences regarding the particular item being discussed in any given thread.

I have to posit, that for the most part, you're full of it.

Being that most other people don't have that many friends, or spend as much time online researching particular items as you apparently do.

Based on the experience my cousin had with a 7400 Remington I'd never buy a semi-auto remington.

I've always had a soft spot for the Wincehster 100. If I found one in 243 Win I'd snap it up asap.

Tom

heres what i got from my belgium bar 30-06 with rem core lok 150g at 100yrds.my first group was the 3 just left of center then i monkeys with the scope and got the 3 above center.........ive had tighter groups with it b4! just wasnt at my best this day

Nothing wrong with those groups. I have been looking into the semi auto myself. The pawn shop has one in for a descent deal in .308.

For hunting I believe a semi-auto should be a low recoil round. The whole point is the follow up.

Tom

My stepfather shot a 742 in 243 for several years and killed a lot of deer with it. He sold it to a guy that worked for him and he used it for several years. We lost track of it after the employee shot himself (I don't think it was with that rifle).

243 is a good round for semi autos. I have a BLR in 243 and love it.

Maybe I do have more friends than some of you guys, maybe not. I really have no idea, but I do have quite a few friends. If you join a hunt club, or anything similar, and hunt in a small town where everyone knows everyone, you will quickly get to see and often shoot many different guns, as well as check out many different scope combo's and hear and see many peoples experiences. Some of what people say you have to take with a grain of salt, other stuff that you witness, or that you get to try out for yourself is what you can count on. 95% of the people I know hunt, and I know quite a few people. Then you figure that the majority of them have more than one gun, and you get to see and shoot quite a few as I said earlier.

All of that being said, myself nor my friends have not used a lot of the products discussed in many threads here which is why you don't seem me commenting on them. If I see a thread about an item I don't know anything about, I don't usually respond to it. I read it and try to learn. Ever notice how there are a ton of threads that don't have replies from me? That's because I don't know about the subject well enough to give an answer or opinion, or because I don't know about it at all. The ones I do respond to, I usually have either had experience with that product either through owning it, or having friends who've owned it that I've gotten to use. If that's not the case, it's usually a topic that I've done quite a bit of reading on and know from that.

So what exactly am I full of it on?

The 740's and 742's have the problems I mentioned and it's well documented, just do a search. Do all of them have these problems? No, but some do and it is a design flaw.

Just like Remington 710's and 770's, for the most part we all know they suck. Yet you can find people that have them and love them. A guy I hunt with on a fairly regular basis has a 710 he will brag to you about all day. He'd never admit that there are better rifles out there for similar prices. I guess it's hard for some people to admit that something they own isn't the best.

The Leupold VX-I scopes are not on par with their similar priced competition. Even most Leupold fans will admit that the VX-I isn't the best scope, and quite a few BAR's shoot between 2-3 MOA. The other thing I often say is that the Remington 870 Express often have rough chambers that cause the gun to make the pump stick after firing cheap birdshot loads. IMO a gun should not need work when it's brand new. They also have a pretty crappy finish on them, and while they are reasonably priced they aren't cheap enough that you should have to sacrifice a properly functioning gun right out of the box. Those are the biggest things I seem to get people upset over, but which one of those am I exactly full of it on?

BTW, I just have to ask. Do you actually own the products you claim I'm full of it on? Have you actually used them if you don't own them? Do you have anything to back up your side of the story to prove I'm full of it? Or should we just take your word for it?

Yes, I have in the past owned a Rem. 742 in .308 nice little gun held decent groups year to year.
My father and brother both shoot BAR's. My dad's is a 7mm and my brothers is a 30-06. Again they both hold decent groups.
None of us is displeased with the accuracy of the weapons.

I can't speak to the veracity of your claims regarding the Leupold VX-I scopes. I have never had one.

My comment was that you always have some friend, or experience, or research from the internet. That is negative or only slightly positive regarding many of the thread that your seen posting in. Also, you expect us to take your word for it, as the gospel truth.
I have no expectation that you will believe that I have owned a Rem., which i never had any the issues, that you mentioned, with.

You can choose to believe me or not.

The friends and family of mine have never had a problem with their Remington autoloaders or pumps. However, I do like the pump models better than the autoloaders.

On any internet forum you will get some inexperienced guy ("me and my buddy" or "me and my cousin" guys) who wants to be heard. One guy on this site never passes the chance to trash Leupold and Remington with ever changing stories, and crap that was posted in yet another internet forum. It is probably best to just ignore their input and not waste the time to discuss, debate, or argue. Not everyone agrees on any topic.

You mentioned pump also. I've owned quite a few 760's (Rem pumps) and they are workhorses. They're not absolute tack-drivers, but they will shoot about any ammo and will take a beating.

What's decent groups to you all? The reason I say that is I think everyone just has different standards of what's okay when it comes to accuracy. I've had several people that have shot my gun with the ammo it likes, and say it shoots fine. However, imo those groups are still horrible. To me anything over 1" groups at 100 yards is pretty crappy. 2" is just horrible. Is it fine for deer hunting? Sure, but it's still not good. That's why I point out the BAR's lack of accuracy as I don't want someone thinking he is getting a rifle that will shoot .5" groups when most won't. Most posters I see asking about the BAR's ask how the accuracy is, so it's something they are curious about. I'm curious to know what the groups measured out to for you though? Got any pictures of the targets? I'm also curious to hear what groups you got with a 742?

I trash the Leupold VX-I and Rifleman line as well, they are crap. They are comparable to a Simmons, Bushnell, etc. Or at least the ones I've had were. Yet they cost about 7 times as much. Even the majority of Leupold fan's I've talked to including Big Country say they aren't that great. Most of the Leupold fans try to say how it's a cheap scope so you can't expect but so much, but at $210-300, they aren't super cheap and you should get much better quality than a $30 Simmons would give you.

Now the Leupold VX-II and above I've never trashed as they are decent scopes. The problem with them is you can get much better glass from other companies for cheaper. While the VX-II and above are fine scopes, I just like to get the most for my money and you can't do that with a Leupold no matter what line.

What ever changing stories do I have? Other than the fact that, I've owned a couple more Leupolds after my first one, and all of them have been about the same. So when I post the number of how many I've owned it's gone up.

As for Remington, It's not that I don't like some Remington products either. It's just not all of them are great. The newer ones in particular have a lot of quality control issues. Read some gun forums, and you will see it's not just me complaining of this. I've had first hand experience with this, as well as with the lower priced Leupolds. I've also got friends that have had the same issues, but it's not like I haven't experienced them too. A brand new gun regardless of price should not need work out of the box. The older Remingtons for the most part are great. However, there are a few like the 740 and 742 that do have design flaws. If you like yours and it works for you keep shooting it and act like they don't ever have the issues with the receiver rails if you want. Not my problem. Just don't tell a guy that's trying to learn about different guns and trying to decide on what he wants a bunch of lies about them. Lots of them still work fine, but it's something if buying one that you need to check out very carefully. That's all I'm saying. I'm not saying they are horrible.

As far as Remingtons, that are good, I honestly don't think you can beat the old 1100 Magnums if you want a great buckshot gun, the old Remington Speedmaster .22's were great, the older 700's were great, the older 870 Wingmasters were great. The 7400 might not be the most accurate but they are pretty good hunting guns. The old 760's and 7600's are great. There are a ton of great guns that Remington's made over the years. So it's not that I'm bashing Remington as a whole. It's a few models in the past they've made that aren't good designs. Then they have quite a issue with quality control now. Read up on the chamber issues on the 870 Expresses, or the bolt handles breaking off of the new 700's. In general I think Remington has taken a huge step downhill since they got bought out Cerberus, but I know a ton of you will disagree with me just because you all like to do that.

I myself as well as many of my friends, have used products that have performed amazingly. I don't hesitate to recommend them, or tell my experiences with them either. So it's not that I have bad luck or problems with everything like you all seem to think. If a posters ask's about the products that I've had great luck with, I'll tell them. If they ask about one I've had bad luck with, I'll tell them too.

I'm just curious as to what I've said that's so full of it? I'd also like to start seeing some targets from these semi auto's with pictures of the groups measured out, since you guys are getting such good groups with them.

Browning BAR. New one will bust your $500, but might be able to locate a good used one. Suggest 308 Win.

We're deer hunters so to us, 1.5" is reasonable. The BAR's both held inside that. My 742 was a little outside that. Currently I shoot a 7mm Rem Mag Ruger that consistently shoots 1" and less.

I have never taken photos of any target I have shot at, except the ones I put in the freezer.
As I have never felt the need to prove my accuracy to any one but myself.
Next time I go to the range I'll photograph the target just for you.

Well there you go. Your 742 was outside of that. To me anything over 1.5" is not reasonable. I know quite a few guys that this wouldn't be reasonable to also. At the same time I know guys that this would be fine to. So maybe when people ask about accuracy of certain guns maybe you should post what size groups you are getting like I do, so that they know what to expect. Not just telling them that they are accurate as it seems we all have a different opinion of what accurate is. I think that's the main problem. I'm sure some of us have rifles that are more accurate than others even of the same model, but more so, I think we all just have different expectations of what being accurate is.

So basically your saying that unless its gonna win a competition its not fit to hunt with. Is that it? 1.75" (742), is not at all unreasonable for a hunting rifle. By any ones standards.
We're not shooting at Wimbledon here. These ain't 1000 yard competition weapons, they're hunting rifle's.

No, I'm not saying that, but I'm saying that if it doesn't shoot 1" or better I'm not happy with it. That's not saying others aren't going to be. In this case, the OP may not have asked how the accuracy is, but in a lot of the cases of guys asking about these guns they want to know how the accuracy is. Even if they don't I feel they should know. If they see posts saying they shoot 1.5-3" groups and they are happy with that, then that's fine. They know up front what they are getting. Some may not be fine with that. That's why I feel it's important to tell them what size groups to expect. I usually add in there on my posts that I don't find those groups to be very accurate. Maybe I should quit adding that.

Saying these things are plenty accurate isn't the best thing to say either imo as to me 1" is plenty accurate. Anything over 1" is not what I'd want. If you have a gun that shoots 2" at 100 yards, that's approximately 4" groups at 200 yards, and so on. If you are shooting at 4-500 yards, that's big enough groups to miss a deer completely.

I owned a Remington 760 in 30.06 and it shot well. Not an absolute tack driver, but it shot where you pointed it. I never shot a deer with it since I got rid of it since it didn't pack as well as I had hoped after 2 shoulder surgeries and some herniated discs in my back and neck but it was a pretty nice gun.

the only thing i don't like about my BAR . is the action slamming forward in the morning. when i can load.

I haven't hung around this forum much, but I beginning to see what you mean. That is why I discount what some people say on different forums just from a "I know better than you, because I spend a lot of time on the internet" attitude. Usually it is pretty easy to spot those people. I know what works for me, and I guess that is what counts.