Can anyone tell me if the 450 Marlin has any greater advantages over the 45-70...After reviewing alot of Forum information and pdf. ballistic info from different ammunition companies they seem to be pretty close to one another....Please advise Steve
ps... Looking to use this for a Buffalo Hunt....

Sorry to reply without any useful information,But GOOD Question.I would like to know more myself.Seems to me without looking at the charts just guessing it would be lilethe difference between a regular magnum and a short action magnum(just for comparison).

I'm sure someone will come by and correct me some but here's the gist of it. The 45-70 is an old cartridge and there are lots of older rifles chambered for it. Trap door rifles some of them are called but I'm not exactly sure what they are. So the cartridge manufacturers tend to load factory ammo on the weak side to avoid lawsuits.

So if you don't reload and want to shoot a stout load then it might be a good idea to get the 450 Marlin as the factory loads are stout.

So summary:

Reloaders => 45-70

Non-Reloaders => 450 Marlin

Tom

The 450 was developed so factory ammo could be loaded to the potential of the 45/70 case. There are so many old 45/70s (like the trap door springfield) out there that ammo makers were leary about selling full-power loads. Basically they added a rim to the case so they could not be chambered in a 45/70.

There isn't much difference between the two when loaded to the potential of the case. The 45/70 is a favorite of handloaders.

I have a Marlin 1895 SS in 45/70 with a pistol grip and 22 inch barrel, and I like this rifle better than the shorter barrelled 450 with a straight stock.

The 45-70 started out life as a black powder cartridge and as such the rifles built at that time were considerably weaker and could not retain the chamber pressures associated with today's modern ammo and rifles. Then came along stronger rifles like the Marlin lever action rifles which are able to safely handle much higher chamber pressures than the old black powder rifles. Then you have rifles like the TC Encore and Ruger #1 which are able to handle even greater chamber pressures than the Marlin rifles.

So, as a result, there are basically three levels of modern factory ammunition available for the 45-70 shooter. Think of it like hand gun ammo. you have standard pressure, +P, and +P+.

Power level #1 is for old rifles like the trap door and only generates about 28,000 psi of maximum chamber pressure and is safe for all rifles chambered for the 45-70 in good usable condition.

Power level #2 is loaded to about 30,000 - 42,000 psi of maximum chamber pressure and is safe for modern Marlin and Winchester rifles as well as other modern reproduction rifles like Sharps.

Power level #3 is loaded to about 55,000 psi and is safe only in Ruger #1's and TC Encores.



The 450 Marlin is based on a belted H&H case and is basically loaded to power level 2 of the 45-70 since it is a Marlin cartridge designed for their lever action rifles.


AS far as which one to get.... The 45-70 hands down.

Either would be fine for Buffalo.In the Nosler reloading manual they include a few comments along with the loading data.The guy that wrote about the 45-70 told of his experience with it on an African Cape Buffalo hunt.He shot a mature male and the bullet punched clean through the big male and also penetrated through to the far shoulder of a female they didn't see standing along side of the male cleanly killing both.I would think the 450 would have produced the same results all else being equal.
Good luck on the hunt!

One point of interest I discovered that is on the side of the 450 Marlin. Steyr Mannlicher produces this caliber in thier Pro Hunter bolt Rifles..... I was hoping Impact Arms would have a listing for it just to see how much it would cost but even though they had alot of them they did not list this one. If anybody knows please share the approximate cost ... thanks steve

Please bear in mind that I presently don't own either, but I'm going to be purchasing the guide gun in 4570 early next year. To me, the 4570 is just one old bad ass cartridge that is just tough to beat.

I have both in the Marlin guide gun. Shooting factory ammo, the .450 packs a bigger punch and offers a lot more penetration. Reloading brings them much closer together in terms of performance.

I shot a .450 and the reason is I didn't want to have to reload to get the full potential but with either one a buffalo wouldn't know the difference.