Hello,
Quick question for you gun experts. I was sighting in my 12 gauge using the LeadSled, after getting it perfect at 75 yards I brought it up to 30 yards and shot freehand. I hit about 6" low and 6" left. So I took another shot, and put it next to my first show...low and left. Frustrated, I put it back on the LeadSled and shot dead center. Now really frustrated, I shot again freehand and put a slug low and left. Using my last shell, I shell, I shot freehand again and put it in the same group.

Does this sound right? I understand I could have flinched...but I find it hard to believe I flinched 4 times the exact same becaue I had a nice group...it was just low and left of the target. So my question is, can the gun shoot differently from the leadsled to freehand. I didn't think so, but I'm an avid bowhunter and don't mess with guns much other than for deer and turkey hunting. Incase it matters, here is my setup....

Remmington 870
Hornady sabbot slugs
3-9 Leupold VII scope.

Thanks in advance

When you say freestyle to you mean free hand?

Have you tried shooting off sand bags?

Unless you shoot it from sandbags it's really tough to help you with your issue. Could be as simple as you need to practice more off hand. It's very difficult to shoot off hand and few people know this.

Tom

I can't comment on the lead sled, as I have never used one.

However, I would "think" that it's repeatability, if anchored securely, would deem better results than most "humans".

As far as you shooting low & left ALONG with "consistent" groups, tells me you may shoulder and cheek your gun differently than the lead sled is set-up to point towards...

I have one of my friends that shoots differently behind the same gun that 3 others have tried. He gets different results than us.
He does shoot HIS own personal gun fine, just holds it differently...

The key is consistency, so I wouldn't worry about the lead sled as long as your comfortable. An example, is if you have ever watched golf and seen Jim Furyk swing a club, I think it's God aweful compared to Tiger or Freddy Couples, etc... But Jim Furyk is a world class golfer, so "proper" form isn't always needed. But consistency is!!!

With slugs, which are much slower, recoil and how the gun reacts to it will affect POI more than with a centerfire at close range. I would not use a device like a lead sled to sight in anything. It may give you a good idea of how the gun likes the load, though.

Hey Kurt.... let me try and put this in terms you may be more familiar with...

What happens when you drop your bow arm instead of bending at the waist? Or heck... what happens if you stand 45 degrees to the target as opposed to 90? Your point of impact changes.

Its damn hard to snuggle up againest that lead sled. It puts you in a very unnatural shooting position. Its nice not to get punished.... but recoil is a very real part of the shooting cycle. I used to use a lead sled exclusively..... and I acctually have two rifles with damaged stocks because of it. The gun needs to move reward into your shoulder.... and moreover... thats what is going to happen when you really shooting anyway. Sight her in off the sand bags or a tripod and you'll be good to go.

I agree its probably an alignment issue, not necessarily a flinch if you are grouping good. If you are sitting awkwardly behind the lead sled, you may not get a good cheek weld. When you remove it from the lead sled and shoot it normally your eye lines up differently with the scope and it will change your point of impact. The lead sled is great for getting close or testing loads for groups but you need to do your final sight in holding the gun against your shoulder...yeah you'll get whacked but it's the only way to be sure. Another option is Caldwell's Fire Control system. They offer a full length rest that will support the gun and eliminate any flinch issues but you are holding the gun as you normally would against your shoulder. It may reduce recoil SLIGHTLY due to friction but you will take the biggest part of it. Hope that helped!!

Zubba,

I could spend several pages explaining why the lead sled is very bad idea for anything other than rough sighting high recoil firearms, especially for slug shooting.

However, before that you need to understand why shooting a shotgun is nothing like shooting a rifle. First off, if you do not hold a shotgun tightly and you shoot off a rest all of your shots will be high and to the left of where they would be shooting in the field. (The fact your shots were low and to the left when shooting off hand suggest that you also have other problems besides how tighly you are holding the gun. If it was a simple matter of not holding the gun down while using the led sled your shots would have been low and to the right freehand.)

Instead of me typing out a long explanation of all of the factors involved, I will point you to a basics course on this subject first... http://www.tarhunt.com/tarhunt/shooting_guide.cfm?id=1&cfid=1831879&cftoken=59294 104

Once you have read those articles, if you have any additional questions or would like any additional tips just let me know and I will be happy to share with you any info I may be able to provide.

JC

For reference here is the set up I currently test my slugs with...

I have the DFT Lead Sled and it is great for testing loads but I wouldn't use it to make your last scope adjustments. I am not getting the gun damage that some say they have but I don't weighed mine down with 100lbs either. I use about 32 pounds and it still allows for the sled to move so the stock is not slamming back into an unmovable object.

Exactly...

JC