Too much Kick?
 

Seems all we hear about at times is kick. Does anyone else out there kinda care less? or have yet to find that pain threshold? or maybe even want a bigger cartridge that kicks more so you know you're shooting something with some power for a particular animal?

Sure when I was boy, kick scared me, made me shoot bad, but now, I've yet to shoot a rifle that I wouldn't shoot again or wouldn't choose to take on a hunt because worry of too much kick etc...

The biggest rounds I've shot were a .340wby and .375H&H, neither I would say was too much, both kick, but I wouldn't say either was close to the "too much" threshold.

After shooting both of those, and looking at the cartridge itself, made me start to think I want more kick/bigger cartridge when the day comes that I go after something really big and dangerous, when that guns goes off I wanna know I sent some serious lead downrange. I'm curious to see where that point comes.

So I'm just wondering who else out there can care less about kick, or at what point kick becomes a concern for them? If kick doesn't scare you and accuracy isn't lost, then it becomes at what point, would you simply avoid a larger round for a smaller one to avoid the discomfort? Would you grab your .375 over .416? or .270 over .300mag?

RE: Too much Kick?
 

I sold a beautiful LH Weatherby to a fellow one time, and when I sold it I knew he would be getting rid of it shortly. I even told him that, but he still wanted it.It was a 378 WBM. He brought it back a few weeks later, and just wanted to get rid of it. He could not take the recoil. I bought the rifle(cheap). I took the rifle out back and shot it off hand. The recoil was bad, but manageable. The problem was when I shot the rifle my equilibrium went screwy. Every time I shot the rifle I thought I was in a daze. I am not sure if this was recoil or muzzle blast. But I did not like the feeling. Tom.

RE: Too much Kick?
 

I have heard about the .378wby, more than once. I'm sure many find .416's .458's more manageable than the .378, I think wby has stopped chambering new rifles in that cartridge too.

RE: Too much Kick?
 

I've shot 1 rifle that I'll NEVER shoot again. It was a double rifle in .600 nitro express loaded with I believe 900 gr bullets and when I pulled trigger-BOTH barrels went off at SAME time!Perhaps I'm a wuss since anything over a .300 magnum is uncomfortable to prolonged sessions from the bench.

RE: Too much Kick?
 

The biggest kicking gun I've shot is a 12 Ga Browning A-bolt shotgun with a 3" magnum sabot. Gives one heck of a kick!I also have shot 7 RUM's, 300 RUM's and they are manageable for me. I would not want to shoot all day long at the range with those calibers, however, I would not hesitate to hunt with them.

RE: Too much Kick?
 

Even though I really don't have any hunting use for them I just love the magnums for some reason. I love shooting my 45 acp compactat the range and 22's just bores me to tears. I only have 2 rifles right now and none of them are what I call big magnums by any sense but my 300suam and my 300wm are both big enough to be fun to shoot. The worse gun I have shot from the benchas far as recoilis my Rem. 870 Super Mag with 3.5" magnum loads of 2 1/4 OZ of copper 5 shot. It has something like 40+ pounds of recoil. I have shot the 50 BMG and it is awesome but with the giant muzzle break they have the recoil is actually light but the muzzle blast is something to behold. I hear the 700 nitro is a handful and I would jump at the chance to shoot it, the rounds go for about $110 each I hear. I just love big guns with lots of power.

RE: Too much Kick?
 

why would anyone voluntarily subject themselves to the abuse of these hard kicking magnums for no reason? i admit i do own a Wby .300 Mag but i only use it when i hunt stands that allow long distance shots (which is rare, i didn't even take it out of the gun cabinet last year). when i shoot deer with my .25-06, they are just as dead as if they were shot with a .600 Nitro Express. it just makes no sense to me, i guess it's just the "big johnson" factor for some guys.

RE: Too much Kick?
 

It's not a big Johnson thing at all with me I just like fast cars, big calibers and anything else that has some power to it. Some like denim and some like lace. JK :D

RE: Too much Kick?
 

Naw, there is a maturing process involved with recoil. When "most" people get to a certain age/experience level, they realize how dumb it was to get the crap kicked out of 'em for years. Some of the best hunters I know shoot nothing bigger than a 243 or 308, and they kill whatever they are hunting at whatever ranges they please with 1 shot.

RE: Too much Kick?
 

Kick is part of the equation when it comes to Dangerous games..there are no other alternatives, some go overboard even in that department witness the T-Rex or other similiar shoulder mounted artillery. Another problem is way too many people have extreme magnumitis when it comes to deer, elk and garden variety bear. This seems to affect younger shooters who are unduly influenced by the internet and hunting magazines and have never hunted with or drawn from the experiences of an older hunter. I use the cartridgethat works for each of the species to be hunted, there is enough information consulting individual tables, field experience and input from experienced hunters that will tell you what to use. Overgunning is not necessary unless you want to add the macho factor. The fact that you posted this makes me think Recoil is in the back of your mind when you squeeze the trigger.

RE: Too much Kick?
 

I traded a guy for a Tikka in .338 Win Mag. He constantly told me how large the rounds were and how much the gun kicked. I was a little scared of it when I finally sat down to shoot it but that thing is a baby. I was also a little scared of my .45-70 because of all of the stories I had heard. It's also a piece of cake. The hardest kicking thing I have shot is my Encore with a 24" 12ga slug barrel shooting 3" Partion Golds. I will NEVER shoot those slugs again.

I also think that the media has sold everyone on having to shoot magnum calibers. My go to caliber was a .270 Win for years. It worked great. I have to admit that I now use a .270WSM but that is mainly because I won that rifle in a raffle. :D

RE: Too much Kick?
 

I have never found a gun I was afraid to shoot, but I have met guns (particularly rifles) that I could not shoot well because of recoil. Once things get beyond .300 magnum for me, I just can hold a decent group, or really concentrate while shooting like I can with the easier recoiling calibers. As such, thats the largest rifle I own, any bigger is a waste for me,as I cant put it to good use.

As I've gotten older, and racked up a couple thousand centerfire rounds shot, I've found I like small, mild caliber rifles the best. I carry a .243 deer hunting alot now just because I shoot it so darn well, I can make shots that I couldn't with other rifles, and thats what counts.

Every shooter needs to find their own personal limit, and stay on the sane side of it. Learn to shoot what you physically can, well, and you'll never find yourself in a situation where you cant humanly kill the quarry you're after.

RE: Too much Kick?
 

Goodanswer MagnumMan 308. The way I look at it is, your not a sissy if you don't like the big guns but your not a immature macho freak if you do. It is just a matter of preference.

RE: Too much Kick?
 

You know most modern rifles and shotgunscome equiped with recoil pads and they do have recoil grips for handguns so to me recoil is not a big deal.

RE: Too much Kick?
 

I've met plenty of folks who "say" they can stand up to anything or "claim" they can handle recoil of just about anything.

All you have to do is go to the range with them one time... its sort of like saying you are brave enough to do something because you did it once. They will stand-up, close their eyes, yank the trigger, and then expect you to marvel at their skill and courage for shooting such a thing....

Quite naturally... standing up to one, and shooting one well or as well as anything else is a HUGE difference. I'll shoot dang near anything offhand, and from the bench I prefer to keep it under .300s unless I have some sort of recoil dampening rest or some such. I am fairly disciplined and I'll lean in and take a few on the chin, but that for damn sure doesn't mean I like it or lust for it.

I am relatively aware of what my realistic thresh-hold is for being able to shoot for performance from a bench every single time. There are others that are right on the line that every so often I'll catch myself jumping a bit... and thats where I draw the line. You just have to be honest with yourself and get over your pride and ego.

RE: Too much Kick?
 

So far the hardest kicking rifle I have shot is my 338 RUM. For me, it is getting close to what is comfortable off the bench with out any kind of recoil reducing rest or such. I will say that I opted to change out the HS Precisionhard rubber pad for a Sims. The HS pad did get to hurting a bit after about 10 rounds. The Sims pad did wondersto lessen that recoil and eleminateany pain.

Standing up off handit's not even close but on a bench I wouldn't want too much more.

I agree with SC, just because a person canpull the trigger for around or two from either the bench or off hand doesn't come close to meaning that they can actually handle the recoil of a particular cartridge/ rifle.

RE: Too much Kick?
 

Back when I played HS football the coach always told us during halftime to come out hitting harder in the 2nd half than we did in the 1st and by the 4th quarter we would run over the other team, well he was right...No matter how much you can stand for 3-4 rounds if that gun is a hard kicker, by 15-20 you will be anticipating recoil...

Recoil has never bothered me too much because I learned to shoot sitting up straight, use a pad if needed, always use ear plugs and to let the gun rock you backwards, you can't fight a gun and shoot straight, you have to learn to roll with it...

I had laser eye surgery to replace a torn retna about 10 years ago, the doctor said there was a 20% chance that I would lose my sight in my right (shooting eye)...Guys, that will get your attention...I no longer shoot hard kicking guns...

RE: Too much Kick?
 

A torn retina is nothing to play around with...a hard kicking rifle can and will do that to your eye

RE: Too much Kick?
 

You darn right there are guns that kick too hard. I purchased a Mossberg 835 ultra mag several years back. It shot 3.5" 12 gauage shells and had a superlight synthetic stock. I shot that dude and it would cross my eyes. I even shot it with 2.75" trap loads and didn't like it. That shotgun got traded at a gun show.

I once shot a 450 #2 double rifle. It's my dads and its a old rifle with two triggers, one for the right barrel one for the left. I made the mistake of pulling the front trigger first, when the recoil hit me I squeezed the back trigger. Double whammy!!! It shook me bad. I realized what had happened and it took some nerve to try it again, this time back trigger first. It was still pretty mean. I've never shot it again. Though I'm not scared of it.

When shooting my 338 wm off the bench it can get to me. After about 5 shots I start to get jumpy. To combat this I use a shoulder pad when target shooting.

RE: Too much Kick?
 

I love big calibers but at the range workingup loadsI do usemy DFTlead sled to eliminate any chanceof shooter error.

RE: Too much Kick?
 

when shooting from a bench, the 338 winmag is about my limit as well. Anything below and i can keep my groups small and clean. anything above and they open up a bit after a few shots. I dont notice myself flenching, tightening up, getting sloppy with my breathing, or anything like that with larger rounds, but for some reason my groups tend to open up with anything larger than the 338 wm and I havent figured out why yet, so its my limit for now.

RE: Too much Kick?
 

Since I tore my rotator cuff 3 years back, I try to avoid shooting many big boys anymore. My 7mm Rem Mag don't bother me one bit, and its the best shooting rifle I own. I shoot quite a bit of 45/70s every year, and some 338s, and I plan on buying a 375 Ruger for my "big" gun for when I go to Alaska.

RE: Too much Kick?
 

http://youtube.com/watch?v=e-4xhp9BReY&feature=related


You gotta love it!! Recoil Baby!!

RE: Too much Kick?
 

Recoil is an interesting thing. When I was 22 or so, a friend of my dad handed me a shotgun to shoot. Damnable thing was a 20 guage 3 1/2 magnum. Liked to knock me om my butt. Never have U shot anything with as much sheer kick. BUT, recoil can be controlled very well. For starters (and this is no advertisement) there is a specially designed shirt called an evoshield and the bloody thing really works and takes about 70-80% of recoil away. Sucker is expensive(about 80 dollars) but is designed to fit to you specifically. Easy to find reference to it on the internet. Secondly, i fyou do not have a properly designed rifle you will always have a bloody nose because of stock issues. Likewise, get scopes with adequate eye relief or you can get black eyes. I am a weatherby man and am well aware of getiing knocked around if you do not know how to handle the weapon. I have been known to shoot the 338-378 at distance (1200 yards) and with reasonable accuracy. If you think the sucker does not kick a bit, shoot it without the accubrake and without an evoshield shirt. Be prepared to run to the dentist to have your fillings replaced. BUT as you get used to the recoil, it becomes more of a shove than a painful event. Friends of mine shoot the weatherby 460 and say it is just a serious push. They have been shooting the rifle for years. At issue is preparation. If recoil is obnoxious to you, shoot a rifle that is tolerable. As stated earlier, doing so does not make you a wimp, it makes you a realist. I have one advantage, I am 6 foot 3 and weigh about 230, If I were 5 foot 6 and weighed 120, I would easily max out with a 243. Just give me a 22-250 and a 240 weatherby and I will shoot all day.

bob chronister

RE: Too much Kick?
 

Does anyone have a chart showing recoil in Ft. Lbs of energy for each of the most popular cartridges and how they compare?

I'd be interested to know how much my 3.5" Rem 870 Supermag with 3.5" Hevi shot loads is putting out because it's about as much fun to shoot as being punched in the head over and over.
I have a pretty major pain threshold and don't get flinchy easy but I'll tell you after nine 3" shells and then five 3.5" shells patterning that thing for turkey season I was almost whimpering at the thought of what was coming when that trigger broke over.
I can offically tell you 14 shots back to back is the most my body in a T-shirt is going to take. I had a headache for the rest of the day.[:-]

I'd be curious to know what that light Supermag is generating as far as recoil goes and where that falls on a centerfire rifle chart because it would give me a pretty good idea where my "enough is enough" threshold is.
Shots 1-6 were tolerable but 6 through 14 were agony.

Makes my .30-06 seem like a BB gun.

And I've shot a Barrett light .50BMG semi auto. Much more fun.........muzzleblast is like nothing you'll ever experience [:-]but the recoil is pretty tolerable.

RE: Too much Kick?
 

Recoil is a killer for sure. As I recall, remington has introduced a managed recoil cartidge this year. You might want to see if it is available in your caliber. At issue is probably the weight of the rifle. If it is a lightweight, the caliber probably exceeds the comfort level of the weight of the rifle. As weight goes up, recoil is less. You might want to shoot more with your 30-06. No easy solution for you although the evoshield might help you a lot. Recoil is not just cartridge sensitive it is rifle weight sensitive. Since the rifle is a remington, I would ask them about the recoil issue.

RE: Too much Kick?
 

Here's a few charts for everyones perusal. some are easier to understand than others, but they all offer some useful info for those interested in recoil #'s

http://www.chuckhawks.com/recoil_table.htm

http://www.chuckhawks.com/rem_managed_recoil.htm

http://www.accuratereloading.com/recoil.html

http://forums.huntingresource.com/index.php?showtopic=2027

http://www.nodakoutdoors.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=22756

http://forum.gon.com/showthread.php?t=56996

RE: Too much Kick?
 

interesting charts and notice, the more detailed ones had rifle weight as part of the issue. i really think the rifle he is shooting is too light for the caliber.

RE: Too much Kick?
 

If you reload and know your velocity, powder charge weightand the rifle weight you can figure the exact recoil of your exact cartridge and gun combo.

http://sst.benchrest.com/recoil.html

RE: Too much Kick?
 

I shot a nef slugger in 12ga for years and that thing will kick pretty good with a 3" slug. Every rifle that I've shot hasn't compared except for the single shot 45-70 and the magnum loads in my muzzleloader.

RE: Too much Kick?
 

Knowing the rifle weight and exact load/charge tell you a great deal ofimportant information. But the correct stock fit and proper shooting technique are often overlooked and can make a HUGE difference in the felt recoil a shooter experiences.

Having a heavy rifle with the latest recoil doo-dads doesn't entirely make up for poor form and/or a poor fit.

In a perfect world we would all have perfectly fitted stocks, shoot with perfect form and be using a lead-sleds weighted down with plenty of ballast. Then we could all shoot the mega-magnums for extended range sessions and really brag about how much of a bad-arse we were!!!:D If that is what we wanted that is.

I myself don't own any real shoulder pushers, my 30/06 and my 8mm/06 are the biggest centerfires I own. Besides those rifles my 3" magnum Mossberg 12 ga is probably my hardest recoiling gun when shootingheavy slugs.

To be frank though, I much prefer to spend extra time at the range with my 243, my 7 x 57, my 300 Savage,or any of my 6.5 X 55's over my 8mm/06, 30/06's or shotgun. They are all cupcakes to shoot but have more than respectable performance forall that I hunt right now.

I aspire somedayto step upto a either a375 H&H Mag, a 9.3 X 62, or a 338 Win Mag (cannot make up my mind!), all of which I have fired before (friends' guns that fit me reasonably well) and I determined I could handle those for short sessions - 5-15rounds or so. If and when I do buy such a gun, I will take care to gain advice on proper fit and recoil pad installation. And for range sessions with it I will likely employ some sort of vise/rest/sled.
I'm safe for now cuz my finances will have me waiting for such a rifle for a few years.

RE: Too much Kick?
 

I own a 3006 and 300 Ultra mag and yes they do have some recoil but nothing like the old single shot 12 gauge that my grandfather owns...can't remember make & model but wow that beast kicks....
My ultra mag does now have a muzzle break but I have shot it before it was installed and it was still managable just wanted to make it a bit more shooter friendly. I can now shoot the ultra mag all day long.....

RE: Too much Kick?
 

kick doesn't bother me. All I need is one shot. I'll shoot a 50bmg without a muzzle brake or recoil pad if it means I get a great hunting experience.:D

RE: Too much Kick?
 

And then you will have a broken collar bone, detached eye balls and a broken neck. ;)[8D]

RE: Too much Kick?
 

Not to mention a sexual change, no teeth, and a head turned around permanently. In seriousness, in times of crisis or extreme excitement, mankind has shown tremendous resolve. Very common in war to see someone fighting like hell, the battle is over, the person looks and sees one arm missing and then passes out. I am not sur it would happen in hunting but serious recoil can cause a disaster for certain.


bob chronister

RE: Too much Kick?
 

I sometimes hunt with a 300 win mag and have no issue doing so. From previous threads I have read itsounds like a bunch of girly-men are on this site. ;)

RE: Too much Kick?
 

well being a weatherby fan we can talk about recoil. try any of the rifles based upon the 378 case (30-378, 338-378, 378, 416 and 460) and come back and tell us how you enjoued the experience. Oh yes, also take off the accubrake and use factory ammo.[8D]:D


bob chronister

RE: Too much Kick?
 

I like my .243 Win...:D

RE: Too much Kick?
 

Isn't that the truth and if you notice almost all come with the accubrake

300 WIn mag is the the breakpoint for most when it comes to recoil

RE: Too much Kick?
 

Charts list 12 gauge 3.5 magnums in the high 70's fp of recoil.







(SorrySJ I was shooting for the quote button and hit the edit one........)