How important is barrel length?
 

I'm looking at getting a .308 and start to shoot at extended range out to about 600 yards. I've noticed that some people want to use a short barrel say 20 or 22 inches them some are 26 inches. I would think that the longer barrel would be better but if it is how much better and why? I know you gain 15-20 feet for every inch but what does that add up to in ballistics?

My plan is to get a Remington SPS Tactical 20'' barrel or Varmint 26'' barrel to learn the basics and also buy some reloading equipment before I move into the big custom rifles.

RE: How important is barrel length?
 

You gain 15-20 feet per second up to a point.

Every cartridge has its magic barrel length. I have no idea what it is for a .308, but I suspect its somewhere in the 20-22" region. A .22 LR for example, has a magic barrel length of 16". What does this mean? At that point, all your powder is burned and your bullet is going as fast as it will go. Much anything past that point is just extra and could even theoretically slow you down.

There are more variables with a .308, especially if you are a handloader, because you can load faster or slower burning powder. So the magic barrel length number will change a bit. To be honest, I think there are many more important considerations that lead up to accuracy than barrel length..... most of them have to do with having a squared action that is properly beaded and a properly headspaced bolt and chamber.

That makes if fairly easy. All you have to fool with is reloading, which is fun, education and addictive.



Here are my thoughts on barrel length... just for what its worth...

When you fire a rifle, your barrel oscilates, just like the amplitude on radio waves, or a limber 10 foot length of 1/2" PVC pipe. The key to being accurate is having your bullet leave on exactly the same amp frequency or wave each time. Hopefully this is making sense to you. As your barrel heats up, its oscillation is more extreme, the waves/whipping gets larger... thats why hot barrels frequently throw shots high or low, but not side to side.

Now, take my PVC example.... say you have a 1/2" PVC pipe 10' long. You can hold it in the middle and shake it, and it will flex and bend like a 4 weight fly rod. In turn, take a 6" section of it, and would take a hydrolic press to flex it. In my opinion/experience, the same principal applies to rifle barrels. The shorter the barrel, the less the flex, the easier it is to have the bullet leave on the same wave/whip every time. There is a law of deminishing returns, however, because your ability to shoot the gun well with a short sight radius drops drastically (it is much less forgiving, which is why its hard to be accurate at longer ranges with even longer barreled handguns as opposed to rifles, as tiny form flaws are exponentially magnified downrange). This is also why bull/heavy barrels tend to shoot more accurately than their tapered counterparts, because they are stiffer and flex less while firing.

Also, as you pointed out, you start losing velocity, and if all your powder isn't being burned up, you could not be getting the exact same amount of pressure/velocity each time. Moreover, of course, a shoulder fired "rifle" cannot by federal law have less than a 16" barrel... so there is that consideration too.

This makes sense to me. Could it be totally way the heck off... sure I guess so, but thats how it was explained to me when I was a bit younger, and its been my experience that it holds true for the most part. Most of the really knockout rifles I have, use barrels under 24" in length. This is also part of the reason (I believe) that a lot of folks are not pleased with the accuracy out of their TC Pro Hunters.... because they all come with those long 28" barrels that really aren't all that heavy.

Sorry to ramble on... hope I was able to shed some light.

RE: How important is barrel length?
 

Short barrels don't shoot...

Neither do skinny ones.........grins.

RE: How important is barrel length?
 

A longer barrel may give you more velocity, up to a point but it won't always be more accurate. A shorter barrel is more stiff. Most target guns have shorter barrels on them, velocity can be compensated for, accuracy loss cannot be.

Paul

RE: How important is barrel length?
 

Your not losing much if anything with a 20" over a 22 or 24 especially with a 308.

RE: How important is barrel length?
 

Agreed...My brother has had a Model 7 since the mid-80s, and it's plenty flat shooting out to 300 yards for deer hunting...Now, I don't care for the short 20 inch barrel on it, just seems too short for my taste...When I rebarreled my .243 I went from a 22 inch to a 24 inch barrel, just seems to fit me better...

I'd base your decision on which feels best to you...Go shoulder a .308 or a 7mm-08 in a Remington CDL, they come with 24 inch barrels, then compare to a regular 700, or a M-77, they have 22 inch barrels...

Now, when you put a 24 inch barrel on a long action, it just seems a little long, for me...

One other point...With short action guns, the added length reduces barrel jump a bit...The gun seems to recoil straight back instead of jumping...Have fun...

RE: How important is barrel length?
 

I have a 7mm08 with a 16.5 inch barrell that will shoot with the best of them.. I also have a 243 Model 7 with a 20" barrell and a 22-250 with a 22" barrell and a 308 with a 24" barrel.. They all shoot about the same..

RE: How important is barrel length?
 

I guess you haven't been to to many competitive matches

"Neither do skinny ones.........grins."

You've been misled. Although you wont see any skinny barrels at competitions I believe it is due to heat more than anything else. I have a custom 300 RUM improved with a #5 Contour 30" Hart barrel that will out shoot just about any heavy shortfactory barrel. It's only good for 4 shots then needs to cool down. But it sure is accurate.

If I were in your shoes and wanting to get that 308 there would be no question as to weather I was getting the 20" or 26" tube. Hands down longer is better. It's very easy to take it to a gunsmith and have a couple inches cut off if you think it's too long and effecting accuracy. You absolutly cannot add length to it no matter how good your gunsmith is.

Also you canot compare the accuracy of a TC Pro Hunter to a good Bolt action. The barrel lenght is not the major deminishing accuracy factor in that situation.

RE: How important is barrel length?
 

Sure you can. Accuracy is accuracy, whether its from a pellet gun or your anti-satelite 300 RUMAI.

I do agree that barrel length may not be THE determining factor, but even comparing TCs with TCs it seems to be the case (unless SW has changed a bunch of stuff and they jsut don't hit on nothing anymore.) Also, as you illuded to, an Encore maybe inaccurate and the way that you need to correct that.... there is where you cannot compare an Encore and a bolt action. Most of that has to do with excessive head space/inconsitant lock up on Encores. But I do know that I have a regular old Encore with a 24" barrel that couldn't hit the ground if I was aiming straight down. TC still ain't sent her back yet either. I don't know what their issues are, but I've read and heard a whole lot of unhappy comments about them as of late.

RE: How important is barrel length?
 

My step dad used to compete at the state level in benchrest and I competed as a young teen on the regional level in both centerfire and rimfire benchrest. I have been to one or two competitions.

I have seen pistols with 12 and 14 inch barrels pull off some amazing groups with a centerfire action.

Some of the rail guns have extremely short barrels as well and are VERY accurate.

Paul

RE: How important is barrel length?
 

Gunner.......

I've seen me hunt, shoot, hump a mountain or two, and build at least onerifle....and can say I've faired pretty well in my pursuits.

What continually amazes me is, less a rod,I only need cast a line to the ripples and hook a Good Fish........

Congrats, as you played the line well.......................

RE: How important is barrel length?
 

personally have the 700 sps Varmint with the 26" heavy barrel. i went with the long heavy barrel for the weight. i just find i hold the rifle steadier than i do one with a short or light barrel.

i dont know if that theory holds water...but thats what ive found with heavy rifles...my rifle is so top heavy i have to sling it upside down...i about lost it when i went to sling it for the first time...it went flipping backwards barrel speeding for hte ground...somehow i caught it.

RE: How important is barrel length?
 

Nice Fish Wilds!

I'm not saying short barrels don't shoot fantastic and I'm also not saying you absolutly need a heavy barrel. They can all shoot great. Comments were made that a short heavy barrel to tends to be more accurate. This simply isn't the case. I have short skinny barrels that shoot good, short fat barrels that shoot good, long skinny barrels that shoot good and right now my best shooting gun has a 33" 1 1/4" straight barrel that shoots better than any other gun I own at any distance. I'm certainly not going to cut several inches off so it's shorter cause I seriously doubt it is going to improve accuracy.

I agree every gun has an optimum barrel length. This depends on loads and bullets you intend to use.That doesn't mean in every case the shorter barrel will prevail. If that were the case every rifle on the market would have an 18 1/2" barrel.

Stick with the 26" barrel length like mauser said for anything else the weight. I have my doubts you'll be dissapointed.

RE: How important is barrel length?
 

I canlike barrel/chamber interiors as a determining factor above and beyond contour as I've wrung out more than a few.....providing lands, grooves and dimensional attributes arepristine.

Junk won't shoot and it's tuff to whoop on a Good Barrel.....

I tend to lean heavily on OCW load R&Dprinciples and have seen many skinny/short contours outdo fat/long....against mainstream opine.

Timing projectile exitvia the upper end of data is the key to"accuracy", AND skookumkillitude.

I've long held the standard thatGood Barrel + Good Trigger + Good Nut Behind The Trigger equals a lot dead stuff....

RE: How important is barrel length?
 

The longer barrel will usually make the gun heavier, which usually makes it easier to hold steady for LR shooting.;)

RE: How important is barrel length?
 

I like 20-22" barrels myself. No need for extra "brush catching" length in my opinion.

My most accurate rifle I own has a 26" tube on it, and I'm seriously thinking of chopping it down. :D

RE: How important is barrel length?
 

"skookum killtude"....????? WTF ???? Most of us don't speak "jive turkey"...

RE: How important is barrel length?
 

Barrel weight is a non issue shooting longer yardage over 'pods and a backpack...

Unrested shots are an easy way to miss......................

RE: How important is barrel length?
 

Noonein my AOspeaks "jive turkey" either...as that conjures images of racial slants tossed back and forth, if it were pressed further.

Speaks volumes that you cant cypher the meaning of "skookum" and "killitude"........nor put the two in conjunction.

Have something to do with almost hailing from WV...??

RE: How important is barrel length?
 

Wow.....Must have touched a sore spot! Why do you want to jump up so quick and insinuate that anything from my post heads the racial way??
As for "skookum" and "killitude", I was unable to find either in the Dictionary. I can imagine that I could put a handle on the definition of "killitude" if I had to, but sorry, "skookum" sounds like something a person may call a housedog.
And as for the WV slur, you probably stepped into it bigtime with that one....

RE: How important is barrel length?
 

Been thru SW PA and WV, a couple of times,and can see no distinguishable difference..........

As far as touching a sore spot you need not flatter yourself, the definition of "jive turkey" here, is that it's something us hill people don't speak/cater to.....period.

"Killitude" is easy, as is "skookum"....knew once,a 105 pound, 5' 7", long haired blonde who was much skookum....'specially in the back seat of my crummy.

She had her own definate opinions on barrel length as well...........

RE: How important is barrel length?
 

There is such a thing as a too-short barrel, but much depends on the cartridge you choose. In .308 WIN., I would want at least 18", and 20"-22"would be better-actually, a short, stiff barrel can be more accurate than a longer, whippy one. You can go down to a stiff, 20" barrel and still have adequate ballistics for long-range accuracy. In a 26" barrel, I'd want it to be at least as stout as the 26" barrels on the Ruger No. 1B......

RE: How important is barrel length?
 

What ??? SHe said size didn't matter?? :D

RE: How important is barrel length?
 

I am not exactly sure of the meaning of "SKOOKUM". But if I am not mistaken, one of the fellows who discovered gold in the Klondike River region of Yukon Territory which lead to the gold rush of 1898 was a Native American named "Skookum Jim".......

RE: How important is barrel length?
 

RE: How important is barrel length?
 

One would assume that size mattered, and she was a good judge of it,thusratedas skookum from me.....

Actually skookum +P.......tho' hershortcoming was her cookin'.

I liked her performance otherwise....as I like Zeiss bins, Leupy Glass,Turrets, Leica LRF's, X's, 700's, ect.

RE: How important is barrel length?
 

Choosing a barrel can a real chore. The barrel you choose for a 308 or any other cartridge hasvariables other than just length. Contour is every bit as important as length. And contour truly depends on shot frequency, and the weight that you feel comfortable with.And probably the most important factor in barrel selection is the quality of the barrel.

Most quality barrels can be an accurate barrel(regardless of contour)if you have the time and expertise to make that barrel shoot. A lot of shooter's get better accuracy from a short fat barrel because they are simply easier to load for. Less harmonics in the barrel, or at least a shorter Sine wave with less noticeable peaks and valleys. Some one explained barrel harmonics earlier. I can only add one thing to that explanation. It is important that you get the bullet to exit the barrel at the same point every time. This is true. But actually more important is that you get the bullet to exit at the centerline of the sine wave. The bullet leaving at the centerline gives the best consistent accuracy(lowest SD's). The height of peaks and valleys can change due to exterior variables. But the centerline always stays the same.

You need to tell us what you want to do with the firearm before a real barrel suggestion can be given. You will get greater velocity(to a point) with a longer tube. But when you go to the longer tube, all the variables become more critical.

I do hate to agree, but SW PA does look a lot like WV. I hunt in SW PA also. I thank G_D that SW PA is a lot like WV. I also thank him for the point restrictions PA put on their deer in this area. I have been all around the country, and this is where I choose to live. No worry about firearms laws here(YET). Nice trout. Tom.

RE: How important is barrel length?
 

Loading via OCW negates harmonics voodoo on many levels...

Sine waves, peaks and valleys...easily understood by the google experts, but whentranslated, the best exit pointis when the muzzle is at it's calmest period of occilation, sweet spot, which is when the shock wave, induced by the detonation of the charge (NOT the recoil of the weapon), is back at the chamber end of the delivery system. Hitting a "sweet spot" during this ever diminishingback and forth migration of the "wave"is when you need the bullet to break from the muzzle.There's several pointsthroughout the load range this happens and usually hitting one at or near the top of the data is, worst case scenario,easy....I also find one about 2/3's the way up that shoots just as good but with understandably less velocity.

Once OCW is fully understood, providing the bore is grade "A", ANY barrel contourcan be made to shoot well, less any hocus pocus like a sims vibration thingy or a BOSS. Have myself never gone over 20 or 25 rounds in R&D to find a "sweetspot" in any good barrel tested...and from there it's just messin' with seating depth to squeeze it down a little.

OCW not only negates contour worries in a good barrel but diminishes such voodoo as bullet lot # differences, powder lot # differences, case capacity varience issues, weather/temp/humidity related issues, and such.......

It also enables one savvy enough, to R&D "swap loads". All my rifles have a cheaper bullet to play with on steel and varmits....and a TSX bullet of same grain weight and similar BC with which to stomp freezer meat dead. Not a huge feat until you realize my swap loads don't mandate a scope zero change to make the swap.......

The fish, BTW, is a dink......................................

RE: How important is barrel length?
 

Either of the remington's will be fine. Eventually if you like the accuracy game you will need to upgrade to a custom barrel and the Remington is a great platform for a build job. I would say that a 22" barrel would be about perfect for the 308. Get one and shoot the throat out then rebarrel with a Shilen or equivolent.

I'd suggest the varmint model simply because I think the stock is better suited for your purposes.

RE: How important is barrel length?
 

Probably the same thing that blonde said about your "barrel length";)

RE: How important is barrel length?
 

This is kind of what I was thinking. Get the Remington 700 sps varmint, Bed and float it, shoot it to heck and back to learn the basics, then use the action as a platform for a custom built.

RE: How important is barrel length?
 

That blonde is/was aRock Star atjudging goodequipment.

Have never known myself to disappoint the ladiesin that regard......

I'm sure tho',you're just trollin' for proof.

Heard talk aboutthe mules, down there in WV, gettin' kinda tired when Drivers Ed and Sex Ed is on the same day.

Poor mules....................

RE: How important is barrel length?
 

Please remember I am but a simple soul from WV, so you should certainly understand why I would consider your trout impressive. And actually we prefer sheep over mules. The mules are just too DERN tall. Tom.

RE: How important is barrel length?
 

Don't forget about the Sendero and 700P rifles from Remington...

Or even the FN PBR/SPR...

Or the CZ 550 Varmint...

All are great actions to build off of later on...

RE: How important is barrel length?
 

I like the Sendaro butI figured I would getthe SPS and use the remaining money to buy some reloading equipment.

RE: How important is barrel length?
 

It's understandable that some wouldn't understand how to apply simple laws of physics to a simple problem such as adjusting the speed of a projectile....in order to time it's exit within'fractions of a second upon it's exit from a piece of pipe. A certain apptitude and skill level would be required for optimum results and am thinkin' at least that of a McDonaldsfry cook.....

The word I used was "diminishes"....source a dictionary and see it's proven that word does not mean "eliminate".

Can only guess, thatyou too...are a west virginian.......

And yes...I've proven OCW to myself in every rifle I've R&D'd for, since I was introduced to it.

Your Milage Will Certainly Vary I'm Sure....................(YMWCVIS)

RE: How important is barrel length?
 

Wilds..... Who do you do firearms and ballistics R&D for??

RE: How important is barrel length?
 

Amazingly I own/shoot, and my hunting/shooting pards own/shoot, more than one rifle/chambering....

And...Them/Me are/is guilty of seeking the best performance possible.

We've narrowed Gear choice down to that which works and tend not to frig around much obtaining Good Results.

I tend to dump a goodly portion of earnings into hunting and shooting....and feel no shame doing so.

I don't golf, nor drive a bass boat either, and couldn't conjure even a clue about that..........................

RE: How important is barrel length?
 

Not hardley. I'm sure your just confused because you and your hunting "pards" are used to frequenting "other-type" forums as opposed to actual hunting forums. Good luck with both;)

RE: How important is barrel length?
 

It's crystalclear you've not a clue what OCW is, or how it's applied.....

Spent 'nuff time just below WV, livin', and workin' with west virginians "smart" 'nuff to seek a decent wage, to know allabout west virginia.

The best thing that EVER came outta that place was I-77 South..............