need some advise on a gun for my brother
01-17-2008, 05:19 AM
#11
Typical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location:
Posts: 809
RE: need some advise on a gun for my brother
01-17-2008, 07:20 AM
#12
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 71
RE: need some advise on a gun for my brother
ORIGINAL: Robert L E
If they need a gun for self defense in the apartment where they live, tell them to move.
They need a bigger apartment anyway if it is too small for a short barrelled pump gun.
Bob
If they need a gun for self defense in the apartment where they live, tell them to move.
They need a bigger apartment anyway if it is too small for a short barrelled pump gun.
Bob
01-17-2008, 07:29 AM
#14
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 71
RE: need some advise on a gun for my brother
ORIGINAL: idunno
If that is the case I have seen several times where a 410 has been recommended. A load of #6 shot at close range will do anyone in and doesn't have the penetration power to go through walls behind the assailant. If the revolver is still the gun of choice, then maybe Taurus' new judge would be worth taking a look at. It fires .45 Long colt or 410 shotshells. Check this out... http://www.taurususa.com/whatsnew/revolvers.cfm
If that is the case I have seen several times where a 410 has been recommended. A load of #6 shot at close range will do anyone in and doesn't have the penetration power to go through walls behind the assailant. If the revolver is still the gun of choice, then maybe Taurus' new judge would be worth taking a look at. It fires .45 Long colt or 410 shotshells. Check this out... http://www.taurususa.com/whatsnew/revolvers.cfm
01-17-2008, 09:37 AM
#15
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location:
Posts: 375
RE: need some advise on a gun for my brother
ORIGINAL: skin290
That's debatable...I certainly would NOT want to trust defending my life to birdshot in a .410, though...I think it is negligent for Taurus to market their 410 shotshell revolver (using shotshells, not the 45 Colt) as a self defense weapon...not enough penetration in the bad guy...
ORIGINAL: idunno
If that is the case I have seen several times where a 410 has been recommended. A load of #6 shot at close range will do anyone in and doesn't have the penetration power to go through walls behind the assailant. If the revolver is still the gun of choice, then maybe Taurus' new judge would be worth taking a look at. It fires .45 Long colt or 410 shotshells. Check this out... http://www.taurususa.com/whatsnew/revolvers.cfm
If that is the case I have seen several times where a 410 has been recommended. A load of #6 shot at close range will do anyone in and doesn't have the penetration power to go through walls behind the assailant. If the revolver is still the gun of choice, then maybe Taurus' new judge would be worth taking a look at. It fires .45 Long colt or 410 shotshells. Check this out... http://www.taurususa.com/whatsnew/revolvers.cfm
01-17-2008, 10:20 AM
#16
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 71
RE: need some advise on a gun for my brother
ORIGINAL: idunno
The size of the patern at the ranges necessary in personal protection would only be around 4"or 5" maybe a little more. I'm talking about inside an apartment or residence where there may possibly be innocent bystanders. Your neighbor in the next apartment with only a couple layers of sheetrock between you for example. Overpenetration is a definite concern. another thing to look into is the total fragmenting rounds like RBCD http://www.rbcd.net/gelatin%20photos.html They are designed to expend all of their energy into the target without exiting again reducing the chance of an injured innocent bystander in my case my 22 month old and 5 year old sons in their bedroom. Just another example
The size of the patern at the ranges necessary in personal protection would only be around 4"or 5" maybe a little more. I'm talking about inside an apartment or residence where there may possibly be innocent bystanders. Your neighbor in the next apartment with only a couple layers of sheetrock between you for example. Overpenetration is a definite concern. another thing to look into is the total fragmenting rounds like RBCD http://www.rbcd.net/gelatin%20photos.html They are designed to expend all of their energy into the target without exiting again reducing the chance of an injured innocent bystander in my case my 22 month old and 5 year old sons in their bedroom. Just another example
What difference does the size of the pattern make? If you have no combined mass or sectional density (bunch of tiny BBs, bunched up , but independent of each other), the penetration will suck regardless. Need at least a 20 gauge with #4 buckshot, IMO.
01-17-2008, 10:42 AM
#17
Giant Nontypical
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 6,867
RE: need some advise on a gun for my brother
it is in a good town not to bad on crime but it is a big town so there is crime
they can not afford to move
there in a town where for 600 bucks a month you get two small bed rooms a bath room and a kitchen and living room it is like 1200 sqftif not less
they can not afford to move
there in a town where for 600 bucks a month you get two small bed rooms a bath room and a kitchen and living room it is like 1200 sqftif not less
ORIGINAL: Robert L E
If they need a gun for self defense in the apartment where they live, tell them to move.
They need a bigger apartment anyway if it is too small for a short barrelled pump gun.
Bob
If they need a gun for self defense in the apartment where they live, tell them to move.
They need a bigger apartment anyway if it is too small for a short barrelled pump gun.
Bob
01-17-2008, 10:45 AM
#18
Giant Nontypical
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 6,867
RE: need some advise on a gun for my brother
there is a range just south of them in Indy that i used all the time they rent guns i might recommend that
i also after looking wont to steer away from the 1911 they seems way to complicated and to costly not even sure i will buy one
i also after looking wont to steer away from the 1911 they seems way to complicated and to costly not even sure i will buy one
ORIGINAL: idunno
I bought a Bersa Thunder .380 for my wife. She is not a "gun person". When we went to the hunting camp for her to learn how to shoot it she hated it. Too small, too light, felt like it had too much muzzle flip etc... I put a Ruger GP100 .357 mag loaded with low recoil .38 spl loads in her hands and she loved it. we eventually worked her way all the way up to some "hot" hand loads and even my hunting bullet of choice for the .357, Federal 180 gr castcore. I ended up selling the Bersa to a friend and now her home protection gun of choice is a Taurus Tracker 4" bbl 7 shot revolver loaded with the Federal Hydrashoks. Have him take her to a range that will rent out guns and let her try them out before buying anything.
If they are not really familiar with guns I would steer away from the 1911's. I feel like they are more for experienced shooters. Baretta 92FS 9mm is a great one as long as they're not really looking for concealed carry. Glocks may be one of the easiest to operate. Load magazine, insert magazine, rack slide, point (aim) at what you want to shoot, and pull trigger. Another one I like is the Springfield XD line. Available in 9mm, .40, and .45. Good luck in helping them find the right one.
If that is the case I have seen several times where a 410 has been recommended. A load of #6 shot at close range will do anyone in and doesn't have the penetration power to go through walls behind the assailant. If the revolver is still the gun of choice, then maybe Taurus' new judge would be worth taking a look at. It fires .45 Long colt or 410 shotshells. Check this out... http://www.taurususa.com/whatsnew/revolvers.cfm
ORIGINAL: bigtim6656
She i do not know about having been around guns much or not she is not small but not big but i am not sure she could handle a 357 44 45 or so on.
She i do not know about having been around guns much or not she is not small but not big but i am not sure she could handle a 357 44 45 or so on.
I bought a Bersa Thunder .380 for my wife. She is not a "gun person". When we went to the hunting camp for her to learn how to shoot it she hated it. Too small, too light, felt like it had too much muzzle flip etc... I put a Ruger GP100 .357 mag loaded with low recoil .38 spl loads in her hands and she loved it. we eventually worked her way all the way up to some "hot" hand loads and even my hunting bullet of choice for the .357, Federal 180 gr castcore. I ended up selling the Bersa to a friend and now her home protection gun of choice is a Taurus Tracker 4" bbl 7 shot revolver loaded with the Federal Hydrashoks. Have him take her to a range that will rent out guns and let her try them out before buying anything.
If they are not really familiar with guns I would steer away from the 1911's. I feel like they are more for experienced shooters. Baretta 92FS 9mm is a great one as long as they're not really looking for concealed carry. Glocks may be one of the easiest to operate. Load magazine, insert magazine, rack slide, point (aim) at what you want to shoot, and pull trigger. Another one I like is the Springfield XD line. Available in 9mm, .40, and .45. Good luck in helping them find the right one.
ORIGINAL: bigtim6656
well the bad thing about a shotgun is they live in a apartment and the door ways are small the hall ways are skinny and it would be hard for a well trained person to move around with a shotgun.
well the bad thing about a shotgun is they live in a apartment and the door ways are small the hall ways are skinny and it would be hard for a well trained person to move around with a shotgun.
ORIGINAL: nchawkeye
Get a good pump shotgun...It takes more skill to learn to shoot a pistol vs a long gun...
And as I've said before....You don't take a pistol to a gun fight.....
Get a good pump shotgun...It takes more skill to learn to shoot a pistol vs a long gun...
And as I've said before....You don't take a pistol to a gun fight.....
If that is the case I have seen several times where a 410 has been recommended. A load of #6 shot at close range will do anyone in and doesn't have the penetration power to go through walls behind the assailant. If the revolver is still the gun of choice, then maybe Taurus' new judge would be worth taking a look at. It fires .45 Long colt or 410 shotshells. Check this out... http://www.taurususa.com/whatsnew/revolvers.cfm
01-17-2008, 11:37 AM
#19
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Blissfield MI USA
Posts: 5,293
RE: need some advise on a gun for my brother
If it is that small of an apartment then I would actually suggest a shotgun over a handgun. A .357 has the capability of going through a person and still penetrating a few walls if you shot them at close range. And if you miss it could go through several apartments still holding enough energy to seriously injure someone.
I also believe a shotgun would be easier to shoot well than a small pistol. I don't suggest getting a small barreled .357 and sticking it in a dresser drawer with very little knowledge of it's operation or how to use it. You would be better off with pepper spray in my opinion. Getting a handgun would require practice and possibly training in how to shoot and use it effectively. And then I still think a good shotgun would be more effective. It would still require some practice, but not near as much to be proficient with it.
As far as the handling of a shotgun vrs a handgun in an apartment, I don't suggest walking through the house trying to clear it like an officer would anyway. Unless you have training in how to do it properly, and then it's still risky. Stay put, call the cops and tell the intruder you are armed and the cops are on the way. Let them come to you, don't go after them.
An 11-87 in 12 or 20 gauge could easily be handled be either of them, and with the right loads and a tight choke it would be devastating on a human target and reduce the risk over penetration into existing dwellings. #4 turkey loads or goose loads are wicked out of a full or extra full choke at ranges under 10 yards. I have done tests with different loads and chokes at different distances. After these tests I would never use a pistol if I had a shotgun at my disposal.
Handguns are difficult to shoot well in controlled situations, let alone the stress of a break in or life threatening situation. Have you ever seen the videos of cops shooting at suspects at point blank ranges, they can empty whole magazines and never even hit the suspect. And these are trained professionals, not some guy and his girlfriend that bought a magnum six shooter and stuck it under their mattress or something
. Something to keep in mind anyway.
Paul
I also believe a shotgun would be easier to shoot well than a small pistol. I don't suggest getting a small barreled .357 and sticking it in a dresser drawer with very little knowledge of it's operation or how to use it. You would be better off with pepper spray in my opinion. Getting a handgun would require practice and possibly training in how to shoot and use it effectively. And then I still think a good shotgun would be more effective. It would still require some practice, but not near as much to be proficient with it.
As far as the handling of a shotgun vrs a handgun in an apartment, I don't suggest walking through the house trying to clear it like an officer would anyway. Unless you have training in how to do it properly, and then it's still risky. Stay put, call the cops and tell the intruder you are armed and the cops are on the way. Let them come to you, don't go after them.
An 11-87 in 12 or 20 gauge could easily be handled be either of them, and with the right loads and a tight choke it would be devastating on a human target and reduce the risk over penetration into existing dwellings. #4 turkey loads or goose loads are wicked out of a full or extra full choke at ranges under 10 yards. I have done tests with different loads and chokes at different distances. After these tests I would never use a pistol if I had a shotgun at my disposal.
Handguns are difficult to shoot well in controlled situations, let alone the stress of a break in or life threatening situation. Have you ever seen the videos of cops shooting at suspects at point blank ranges, they can empty whole magazines and never even hit the suspect. And these are trained professionals, not some guy and his girlfriend that bought a magnum six shooter and stuck it under their mattress or something
. Something to keep in mind anyway.Paul
01-17-2008, 11:43 AM
#20
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Blissfield MI USA
Posts: 5,293
RE: need some advise on a gun for my brother
Oh, and I love glocks, but I would never suggest one to a begginer shooter. These are guns for experienced shooters in my opinion because of the trigger design. And the 92's are HUGE, I don't see either of them shooting one well. I am about the same size as your friend and they are just too big for my hand. And I don't feel they are any less complicated than a 1911 is. If they go with a handgun I suggest a medium frame revolver with an average length barrel. They are simple to use and understand and will pretty much go bang everytime you pull the trigger if they are loaded.
Paul
Paul