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bigcountry

Naw, we ain't overgunned. I mean, come on whats your objective? Retrieve the game. Not retrieve the game with the smallest gun possible. Every time I hear the Jack Oconnor things, it makes me want to gag. I have a reporter friend and he explains to make it in the writing business, you got to have an angle. Thats what Jack did. And alot of jokers buy it. Yea, sure the .270 kills just about anything, but so does 30-06, 25-06, .308, 7mm-08, and on and on and on. Nothing magical about it. Just punches a hole in critter, critter goes down. Plain and simple.

GAHUNTER

Bigcountry, my good friend, you are wrong! You of all people should know that we have gone too far in promoting ultra boomers that most average folks can't shoot, can't reload effectively and perform poorly on game because of "over bored" ballistics (what caliber did you kill your moose with?)

It's ironic, but we now hawk calibers with velocity so fast that it takes specially constructed "super premium" bullets to get the projectiles to perform the same as "old," more mundane calibers utilizing standard bullets, like say, the .270 Win!

You also know that I'm not anti-magnum -- I own three (counting the 404 Jeffery that I got for cape buffalo in Africa). It's just that I think we have gone too far in insisting that these are the only thing to buy. In fact, an aquaintence new to hunting showed me his new whitetail gun recently. Bear in mind that this guy has never yet fired a gun in anger at any living creature. It was a 7mm Rem Ultra Mag! He read a couple of magazine articles and headed off to the gun shop to buy "a gun that will reach out and get'em." (I'm glad the shop in question was out of .30-378s that day!)

Now you know, and I know, that this guy has no business shooting such a gun at whitetails. First, if he ever does master the recoil at the range (doubtful) and finds a load that he can shoot well (more doubtful), he will either blow deer in half, have total bullet failure due to too much velocity at close range, or take shots no mortal should attempt because he thinks his gun "will reach out and get'em."

A .270 or .308 would have been more than enough rifle, and a much more effective rifle, for this guy to shoot anything he is likely to hunt in the next five years -- probably for the rest of his life.

seattlesetters

Danny - That is why I really like the short "magnum" cartridges. They really are much easier to shoot than the real magnums, and they don't really give a huge performance advantage over the standard cartridges.

They marketing genius here, though, is that they have the word "magnum" in their names, and as such, will become very popular with gun writers and buyers. We'll all be better shots because of it, since we won't be getting the living h#$l kicked out of us, and we won't feel like wimps because we aren't carrying a "magnum" rifle into the woods.

I think this is the big gun and ammo companies concession, disguised very well by marketing hype, that we are indeed overgunned and should be shooting something more reasonable. <img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle>

Good Dogwork and Good Hunting

James B

I read about everything That I could find by Jack O Corror. He knew his stuff and although he did much of his hunting with the 270, he also was a big fan of the 30-06 and wrote about as much about the 375 H&H as he did about anything. He believed and rightly so that the 270 was the equal of almost all North American game. Calling him a whore for Winchester of anyone else is childish as hell and shows no respect for a great hunter and writer. If a guy needs a cannon to kill a deer then I guess they better use one. I don,t. Jack didn,t either.

bigcountry

There you are, my fine southern freind. I thought you might have dropped off the face of the earth. Or love Newf so much, you moved there. Just joking. Yesss, I shot my moose with a 30-06. But you missed what I was saying. I just want to make sure we don't have a society that shunnes new calibers. Like now, I am kinda winter lull, being bored, want something new. I load all the regular .270, 06's, and .243. But want to try out these WSM.

These days, as long was I can get a 150gr &gt;.270 caliber but less than .338 to go over 2800fps, I am happy with one stipulation for all game besides a griz. That stipulation is it has to be light. That big bruiser about killed me a few times. What do I use 100percent of the time on deer or boar. My trusty old semi remington .270 with 2&quot; groups. Why? It works and I think it would be bad luck to use anything else since I used it for almost 20 years. But it doesn't mean that Jack was right saying it was the best thing since white bread.

Oh yea, I agree that there are sheep out there that just follow. But I don't care. I was down in Ky deer hunting and stopped by the gun store. Some guy there said he don't go deer hunting unless its a .338RUM. I just shook my head and laughed. But it just typical talk I am used to at the old general store and gas station. No skin off my back. As long as I know better. And think about this GA, its good for economy for these good ole boys to buy new guns every year. Brings the price of std. calibers down a little. I know, I am getting a little overboard. Only downfall with what I am saying is it doesn't promote ethical hunting. You are right about that. You get these guys who sight in there guns once a year with 8 shots and bam, they are 500 yard shooter, (in there mind). Then you see deer you have downed that are wounded from bad shots or find them in the woods. It doesn't promote smart, ethical shooting.

Good to hear from you.

frizzellr

&quot;Calling him a whore for Winchester of anyone else is childish as hell and shows no respect for a great hunter and writer.&quot; If the shoe fits. Prove to me that he wasn't on the Winchester payroll. I have read some of his stuff and I wasn't all that impressed so no, I don't have that much respect for him just like I have no respect for many other writers. That's my choice so whether it is seen as childish or not I could care less.

James B

I don,t know if he worked for winchester or not. If you have a job are you a whore for your employer? No need to bash the dead because you don,t see things his way. Sales of the 270 winchester proves that it did not need Jack or anyone else to sell it to hunters. I believe its sales are second only to the 30-06. All that said you certainly have a right to your opinion.

bigcountry

You know Frizz, this is one of those times I agree with you. I just don't know what people in america are thinking these days. People look so high to entertainers. Like football players, and even Nascar drivers and our good ole Jack O'connor. People forget that these people are not Gods. They are here to entertain us like a court jester. Now, I am sure that this man was probably a good man that got lucky in doing what he loved. And some merit in what he was saying. But saying he was the end all be all and so superior to the gun world. I don't think so. John Browning, maybe. Actually, John Browning, absolutely.

WV Hunter

I think in general, yes we are overgunned. But like was said, that is the way the trend is today. Kinda like cars...not too long ago, you were lucky to get a car with 200 hp, not there aren't that many out there that are that &quot;weak&quot;.
I think the big guns definitely have their place, but way too many folks think you have to have one to hunt effectively. I know a bunch of guys that shoot whitetails with their only deer rifle, a .300 weatherby. More often then not, they get busted in the nose, or eye. It makes me laugh. Overkill for sure, especially on our 75-140lb deer.

Personally, I believe 100% that I could kill any big game animal in north america with my bow, much less my .280
I would like to eventually like to get a .300 (probably WSM). I think they definitely provide an edge at very long distances, and on bigger game....although I don't really think it is needed. I wouldn't hesitate to shoot an elk at 300yds with my .280 today. IMO, shot placement and bullet performance take precedence over caliber.