25-06
12-03-2007, 01:59 PM
#41
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location:
Posts: 1,813
RE: 25-06
ORIGINAL: eldeguello
Hmmmm... I hope you aren't implying that there are no more poachers out there.....
ORIGINAL: DM
Well, he was a poacher, so that may be a bit hard to do today...
DM
I invite anyone here in this threadwho can present credentialseven remotely equivalentto those of W.D.M. Bell to lay them out for review.
DM
DM
12-03-2007, 02:18 PM
#42
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Rivesville, WV
Posts: 3,192
RE: 25-06
It has been my experience that an elk guide wants a hunter to put the elk down on the spot. The only reliable way to do that is to break down the front shoulder's. Behind the shoulder will normally allow an elk to run or even walk off some distance. I realize breaking the shoulder will waste some meat. But the shot is a for sure way to put an elk down in it's tracks.
The problem with your 25-06 is that I would not trust it to break both shoulders. It takes a little horsepower to do that. It takes some horsepower to even break one shoulder.
When you are elk hunting you have to take the shot that you are given, or go home empty handed. I did some elk hunting with a 340 Weatherby. Any shot with the 340would have taken the elk cleanly. I was trophy hunting, so some meat loss was acceptable to me.
If you are hunting for any cow elk, or strictly meat hunting(that is what a lot of elk hunter's do), then shot selection can become more important. But I would still rather have a big hole going in, and a bigger hole going out.
We once shot a small bull behind the front shoulder with a 30-06. The bull was dead on his feet. But he still went about 200 yards. He went directly down over a slide. I took two of us the entire day to get the bull out. If he would have died in his tracks we could have had him out in less than an hour. Tom.
The problem with your 25-06 is that I would not trust it to break both shoulders. It takes a little horsepower to do that. It takes some horsepower to even break one shoulder.
When you are elk hunting you have to take the shot that you are given, or go home empty handed. I did some elk hunting with a 340 Weatherby. Any shot with the 340would have taken the elk cleanly. I was trophy hunting, so some meat loss was acceptable to me.
If you are hunting for any cow elk, or strictly meat hunting(that is what a lot of elk hunter's do), then shot selection can become more important. But I would still rather have a big hole going in, and a bigger hole going out.
We once shot a small bull behind the front shoulder with a 30-06. The bull was dead on his feet. But he still went about 200 yards. He went directly down over a slide. I took two of us the entire day to get the bull out. If he would have died in his tracks we could have had him out in less than an hour. Tom.
12-03-2007, 06:32 PM
#43
Typical Buck
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Denver, Colorado
Posts: 599
RE: 25-06
"....I would not hessitate to shoot anything up to a muledeer with my 22-250, but that's because I know my rifle and I know what it can and can't do. However, I have never shot a deer in the chest with my 22-250. I only take the shot while the animal's head is up and I have a good square shot on the neck. Not quartering to or away. Only if the animal is broad side or, best case scenario, the animal if facing directly towards me. It doesn't matter what you are shooting if you break the neck the animal will not live. Period.
You guys can stand behind your opinion about the 22 calibers being "too small" for deer and continue to blast them with large bore rifles. That's fine with me.
Your arguments do not change the fact that just as many deer, if not more, are wounded and not recovered with large bore rifles because people tend to "see fur and pull the trigger".
Should everybody should shoot a 22 caliber rifle at deer? Without a doubt, no! That statement is as irresponsible as saying that every hunter shooting deer with a 22 caliber rifle is unethical.
Bottom line is that it has more to do with the shooter than the rifle. You can own the fastest race car in the world, but if you don't know how to drive it then you aren't going to win many races.
I personally like the low recoil of the small caliber rifles, and I like the fact that if I want to shoot 100 rounds in one day out of my 22-250, my shoulder can take it. If I am shooting my .270 I shoot is as little as I need to because of the recoil.
And that's my personal choice. And I stand behind that choice 100%.
You guys can stand behind your opinion about the 22 calibers being "too small" for deer and continue to blast them with large bore rifles. That's fine with me.
Your arguments do not change the fact that just as many deer, if not more, are wounded and not recovered with large bore rifles because people tend to "see fur and pull the trigger".
Should everybody should shoot a 22 caliber rifle at deer? Without a doubt, no! That statement is as irresponsible as saying that every hunter shooting deer with a 22 caliber rifle is unethical.
Bottom line is that it has more to do with the shooter than the rifle. You can own the fastest race car in the world, but if you don't know how to drive it then you aren't going to win many races.
I personally like the low recoil of the small caliber rifles, and I like the fact that if I want to shoot 100 rounds in one day out of my 22-250, my shoulder can take it. If I am shooting my .270 I shoot is as little as I need to because of the recoil.
And that's my personal choice. And I stand behind that choice 100%.
"....Going back to the 25-06.....I feel that the 25-06 is plenty sufficient tokill elk. Elk are tough creatures, no doubt about it.But let's be real. Even with a super whiz bang magnum rifle you have to put the bullet where it's supposed to go...right behind the shoulder. Otherwise you risk losing the animal...plain and simple.No matter what gun you use, you must make a good shotto bring an elk down....."
The second appears to be based in theory with no experience on elk.
Gotta give the lad credit, at least he is consistent, exceptthe aim point changesbetween the two....
Does seem to be "recoil sensitive" which may lean the viewpoint.
Note: I also agree with FC, for those who use capable cartridges one is not restricted to the "right behind the shoulder" requirement. Personally I consider it to be inferior to punching them thru the shoulder(s) with a capable cartridge which also scrambles the boiler room in the process plus stops theadrenalin run, which in elk country can take you a long ways into where you don't want to go.
I guess there is always neck shots.... not my cup of tea but advocated by some.
IMHO, less than 30-06 power is weak and asking for trouble where none need exist.
I've seen cases where the friskier cartridges put elk right down even with less than perfect placement which, though I am sure many here don't believe it, sometimes happens to humans in the real (non-internet) world. While this should not be relied upon at all, it does provide a measure of insurance against the uncertainties that occur in real life.
12-03-2007, 06:54 PM
#44
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: NW GA
Posts: 32
RE: 25-06
when i posted this tread i did not mean for the rifle to be an elk gun. its primary purpose is whitetail in nw GA. I will most likely only be going elk hunting one or two more times if invited back so i dont need a so called "elk gun". I just need to know it will do the job if called upon.
dunno why
12-03-2007, 08:50 PM
#48
Banned
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 824
RE: 25-06
I've heard that some of the guides out west won't take you out with anything less than a 30-06. If it were me, and I was putting up the $4,000 to $5,000 for an elk hunt, I'll be damned if Im taking a pee shooter with me. I think if I were shelling out that kind of dough, I would find another grand or so for a caliber more suited to the game. 7mag or 300 win mag.
12-03-2007, 09:10 PM
#49
Fork Horn
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Hamiltucky, OH
Posts: 485
RE: 25-06
ORIGINAL: andlan17
many people have said the 25-06 is adequate to kill elk. would that not make it an elk rifle?
many people have said the 25-06 is adequate to kill elk. would that not make it an elk rifle?
One could argue it's all semantics, but the bottom line is that this cartridge is at the marginal end of the spectrumfor quickly andhumanely harvesting an elk in the majority of circumstancesone encounters such an animal.
I used the Geo Metro example earlier, so let's try this one. Sears makesthe Craftsman riding lawn tractor. It's got an engine, a deck, a transmission, tires, etc., and it looks like a tractor. It will, without a doubt, cut grass. How many professional lawn maintenance companies use Sears Craftsman mowers? Virtually none. Such folks use Scag, Exmark, Walker, et. al. - equipment with more power and more steel. Equipment that was designed from the ground-up to cut grass of nearly any length, in any weather conditions, on any terrain, at a very high rate of production. Equipment designed to keep these guys working. So while one could say that the Sears Craftsman is adequate to mow grass,itcannot reasonably be calledacommercial lawnmower.
The .25-06 is a great cartridge. It's an impressive cartridge. It shoots flat, hits hard, and is easily manageable by almost any shooter. But it is not a cartridge one very often finds being carried by hunters who are booked on an elk hunt.
Go ahead & get the .25-06, & drop those GA whitetails season after season. If an elk hunt presents itself, however, borrow something at the .270 level or higher, & practice with it plenty before you head out West. It's just the prudent thing to do.
FC
12-04-2007, 07:35 AM
#50
Fork Horn
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Estill Springs TN USA
Posts: 270
RE: 25-06
There is a lot of good reasoning going on here. I personally think the bow and arrow should not be used on any game larger than turkeys however it is used on the largest out there. I am not an elk hunter but wouldn't the 25-06 be as capable as say a bow? Of coarse reasonable ranges considered for both weapons.