Out west rifle need help
 

I am going out west(not this year) to go after Elk and Mule Deer. I am looking at getting one of three rifles in one of two calibres.

rifles: Tikka T3(in either laminate stainless or wood blued)
Browning A-Bolt in Stainless synthetic(new camo stock)
Remington Mountain Rifle Stainless synthetic

Calibres: 300 WM, 325

I was wondering what you all thought of these rifles in those two cartridges or if you had any suggestions of your own. My current whitetail rifle is a Winchester 70 featherweight in .270. I know i could load it hotter for elk and it'll drop mulies fine. However I wanted something that shot hotter and was thinking 300 in a 165 grain bullet? If this should have been two seperate posts forgive me, new to the forums.

RE: Out west rifle need help
 

Any of the three rifles would be fine choices. Either of the two cartridge choices would be excellent. though I wouldn't shoot 165's except possibly Barnes TSXs. I would recommend at least 180's for the 300 WM.

RE: Out west rifle need help
 

Of the rifles, I would lean toward the Tikka, just personal, I really like their stock, and I have been thinking of maybe getting one in .338, I really don't NEED one but it's never really a case of need is it : ) Of the calibers, I would definately go with the .300WM I have two and love 'em. Ditto on the 180gr bullets, I prefer Partitions, again, just personal, there are a lot of good bullets out there. I prefer calibers that have been around along time, and the 300WM has been here since the '60s, I just like the old standards ( like the .270)

RE: Out west rifle need help
 

Any of those rifles will work great for you. My favorite is a-bolt. If you do get a a-bolt,be sure and get the boss. Looks like you forgot the excellent .338 win mag. If you want a outstanding close to medium (within 250-300) range rifle without magnum recoil-check out the 35 whelen. Of the magnums-either 338wm or .325wsm. There are bigger,faster cartridges but it's my opinion that one would be shooting instead of hunting if those cartridges won't do the trick.

RE: Out west rifle need help
 

I guess I was leaning toward the .300 instead of the 338 due to the fact that I could load the .300 down to .30-06 like performance if I wanted to use it for whitetail too without the kick. I hadnt give the .338 much thought and will look into that as well. I have used my uncles .325 and liked how it performed....likewise the .300 thats why I was torn between the two.

RE: Out west rifle need help
 

I would lean toward the Tikka too. Mostly because they have that wonderful 1 MOA accuracy guarentee as well as a detachable mag. The T3's aren't that great for fit and finish but they have a wonderful trigger (as do the Brownings) that is easily adjustable between 2-4 #'s as well as the slickest actions I've ever felt (bolt slides on it's own when you tilt the rifle 30 degrees either up or down all the way open or closed).

I love my Tikka and I've never regretted selling my A-Bolt to buy it.

RE: Out west rifle need help
 

300 WM, either the Remington or Browning. Noting you can kill muleys with a .223, I think a 325 might be a bit heavy. Doesn't have the load options of the 300.

RE: Out west rifle need help
 

Just stick with your 270. You alread own it, you're comfortable shooting it, and it has plenty of power.

RE: Out west rifle need help
 

I went once already and took an elk with it, it took two shots and still went a ways(both right in the lungs) I want something with a little more nockdown power and one with a little more range I guess. Or am I barking up the wrong tree?

RE: Out west rifle need help
 

A 270 was taken to Africa and killed everything that it could there. Of course it was a Weatherby.

RE: Out west rifle need help
 

You have taken an elk with your 270win. I have taken an cow elk with 7mm mag. at 350yds. and hit her sqaure behing the shoulder.Took out both lugs and she went another 30yds.She stood there for 3 minuites before going down. I had the same thing on deer.Like wyotimberghost said. But if that gives you a reason to purchase a new gun by all means either caliber you mention will work as long as you can handle the recoil and place the shot well.

RE: Out west rifle need help
 

I agree with timberghost and 700xcr. There is absolutely nothing wrong with your current whitetail rifle. The .270 is a mainstay in the elk woods, right alongside the .30-06. Elk are tough, but a well-placed shot with a .270 will easily do the job.

"Beware the one-rifle shooter"

RE: Out west rifle need help
 

Both rifles and chamberingswill definately work. Another option would be the 300WSM and you can get it in a shorter, lighter version of the Browning. Not sure about the Tikka. And you can also get either the 300 WSM or Win Mag in a few Savage Models which will be cheaper and just as accurate.
One other thing, if you are recoil shy you don't have to be macho and get either of these chamberings. The good old .30-06 may be a couple 100 fps slower than the 300s but is still more than capable of taking mulies or elk with a good 180 gr bullet.

RE: Out west rifle need help
 

I was planning on using the ole .270 as a backup, but you all make good points. Its certainly any excuse to buy another rifle. I am far from recoil shy, it does not bother me and I have shot the calibres I was talking about but not had much experience past a little benchtime and research.

RE: Out west rifle need help
 

Hey, leave him alone! he wants to buy another rifle ! : )

RE: Out west rifle need help
 

Hey 270 fanatics,


He's used the 270 and didn't get the results he hoped for. Now he wants something bigger. So be it. I get sick of the Recoil comments too. You would think that it was absolutely impossible to shoot good with a belted magnum. Newsflash Not everyone is recoil sensitive. And there are shooters vest with padding and new recoil pads all of which can greatly improve the felt recoil of some of the heaviest thumpers for range sessions. And as we all know you never fell it when shooting at game.

I don't dissagree that the 270 will do the job, as a matter of fact i have a 6.5mm that I'm certain would kill an elk provided a decent path to the vitals. But, Ihunt with a 338 wm for the same reasons he stated. More kinetic energy, large diameter bullet, and absolutely hammers elk out to 350 yds. At normal hunting distances itturns marginal angles into confident shots. for example i once had an elk present a severally quartering to me shot. He was basically facing me at 150 yds. To shoot I would have to shoot through the front shoulder/ brisket and still get enough penetration to take out the vitals. The wind was swirling and the bull was getting antsy, any moment he's was going to split. It was time to take the shot or not. With a 270 I'd have gone home with tag soup because I wouldn't trust the bullet to do the job. Carrying my 338 I had elk loin steaks on the grill at camp that evening.

RE: Out west rifle need help
 

To me,using a .270 on elk is like using a .223 on deer-it can be done but not near as good as when a bigger rifle is used. Elk are tougher than people give em credit for,and we owe the game animal respest to kill it as quickly and as painless as possible. Chasing a elk-or any game animal around to put more shots into it is NOT respecting it.

RE: Out west rifle need help
 

I've been with my wife on 2 cow hunts where she got her cow using her 270. The first was a 1-shot drop and kill. The 2nd was just a few years ago and she hit it too far back in the spine high. It ran off with it's front legs and we had to catch up to it and I finished it off. It worked, we got both elk, but I think if you have a choice, a 7mm or bigger round is a better choice. I have a 7mm and have taken 2 elk with it as well, neither was a 1-shot kill. I can't afford a new rifle but if I could I'd probably look at the 300 WSM pretty hard. I'm going to save my pennies for the Sako 85, probably in that caliber for my deer/elk/bear rifle. I think the 300 WSM is going to be the new 30-06 and should be around a long time. Of course, a 30-06 is a good round too but personally I like to have the flatter trajectory of the WSM if I have the option of a new rifle.

RE: Out west rifle need help
 

If you already have a .270 I would look at the .325 WSM or the .300 WSM. Though there are several other ones that would work just as well. I'm going to use my .450 Marlin for elk when I go. With the Hornady bullets I can shoot 200 yard swith no problem and the gun is short enough if you hunt in heavy timber you can move it around easy.

RE: Out west rifle need help
 

I'm no fan of the .270. Never owned one, and I doubt I ever will. I like the flatter trajectory of my 7mm Rem Mag with heavier bullets. It has a definate advantage over the 270 if I ever need to take a 400 yard shot. But having said that, I disagree with the concept that you need a rifle that will blow right through both shoulders on an elk at 200+ yards. I have seen elk hit right in the shoulder by .270's and 30-06's (I did it with my '06 several years ago), and every time the end result is the same: elk are as good as dead if they lose the use of one of their front legs, so while the first shot may not kill them instantly, it only takes a matter of seconds to put another round in the chamber and finish the job. It's not like hitting an antelope or deer in the front quarter- they'll just keep on a running. Elk can't hardly move after they're hit in the front shoulder. That's why a lot of guys who've been elk hunting for half their lives will tell you to "crowd the shoulder" when you're shooting at elk.

And please don't try to come back with the "quick, humane kill" angle. Killing an elk that has had its shoulder busted usually only takes however long the hunter needs to jack in another round and get a steady rest. If everyone was truly concerned with killing animals instantly, they'd go for nothing but head-shots and they'd have nothing to do with archery hunting.

RE: Out west rifle need help
 

I once shot an elk looking straight at me at 75 yards with a 340 Weatherby Magnum. 250 grain bullet. The bull dropped in his tracks. I would not have taken that shot with a 270. I am sure a 270 is adequate medicine for an elk-but why would you limit yourself?? I guess if you can not handle a larger caliber then you should not shoot a larger caliber. But again why would you limit yourself. Get the larger caliber and shoot the largest bullet you feel comfortable with. 338's and 375's rule. Tom.

RE: Out west rifle need help
 

Shatodavis - Its too bad you took my comment the wrong way about recoil. But SOME shooters are recoil shy and develop a bad flinch from just a couple of bench sessions with a big cartridge/rifle combo. Although you are right that you don't feel the recoil when shooting a game. If the shooter does devleop a flinch he may not hit what he is aiming at or worse yet, cripple the animal. I'd much rather see someone use a .270 with a quality bullet and hit the vitals than a .338 and hit the guts. We are all entitled to our own opinions and we have both stated ours.

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I 100% agree with you. Ihave a retired game warden friend that uses a 300 Savage mod. 99 in thick wooded area and 6.5 Rem. mag. in the open area. In the 300 Savage he uses 150gr. handload and the 6.5 mag. uses 129gr. handload. He has never lost an elk yet.Shot placement and bullet construction to me is the key factor.

RE: Out west rifle need help
 

I totally agree!

Accuracy can be obtained with the big thumpers too.

OBTW I wasn't necessarily directing my comments to you. Just talking in generallities.

RE: Out west rifle need help
 

I cannot give rifle recommendations, as I have never used any of those.

However, the .270 is certainly adequate for elk. My bullet choice in the .270 for game bigger than deer is the 150-grain Nosler Partition with 53.5 grains of IMR 4350.

If you need a larger rifle, IMO, .30 cal is not enough bigger than .270 to make a significant difference. However, the .325 is, and even better is the .338 Win. or the .340 Weatherby. But make sure you can handle the recoil of such critters before you use one on a nice trophy!

RE: Out west rifle need help
 

Eldegullo,I too bypass the 30 caliber. If it's too big for 7mm,I go straight to .32,33,or 35 caliber. To tell the truth,I seldom hunt with ANY rifle anymore as I'm usually bowhunting.

RE: Out west rifle need help
 

Why bypass the .30 caliber america's sweetheart caliber. there must be something to the .30 calibers sell better than any biggame caliber. I agree with most you don't need more than .30 and sure you can get by with a smaller caliber.

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Any those rifles will do you fine. IMO a Remmy 700 Syn/blued in 30.06 or .308 will do the job fine for you.This save you several hundy dollars that you could purchase another piece of equipment like a good pack!:D

RE: Out west rifle need help
 

I recommed a rifle chambered in 338-caliber, for a elk only rifle.
I myself use a 340-Weatherby. I own other rifles, but the 338 is king in the elk wood. (IMHO)

RE: Out west rifle need help
 

The .30 is America's rifle caliber for one reason only: The Army used it in the Krag, and later, the 1903 Springfield. Had the Army chosen the 7mm or the 8mm as a result of the Spanish American war, then one of those would be "America's caliber" instead of the .30.

The reason for jumping over the .30 is that it is not sufficiently better than a .270 to buy a .30 if you already have a .270.

RE: Out west rifle need help
 

...But then, you can never have TOO many guns so if you have a 270 and want a 300 WSM or 30-06, go for it I figure. However, if you can only have one or the other or only the two, I too would recommend going to a 325 Ruger or larger, good for elk and big bears.

RE: Out west rifle need help
 

I agree 100% that if you have a 270 there is no need to go to a .30 cal. I just like the .30 cal. and in fact if a guy were to start off and only want one rifle I think the 270 wsm is a very hard one to beat. very flat shooter and enough energy for N america big game.

RE: Out west rifle need help
 

You're better off using the .270 you are familiar with. With a good bullet, like a 150 grain Nosler Partition, youcan be sure that you have plenty to kill any elk that ever walked the face of the earth. With that bullet, I use 52.0 grains of H4350 on my loads. I had a broadside shot on a large bull 3 years ago, and that round/load performed well. The bull ran 30 yards and slid into a sagebrush. When I opened him up, his lungs were basically jelly. That Nosler bullet passed through and through on that large bull at a distance of 285 yards.

Another poster mentioned he used this load but with significantly more powder behind it. I would beware following this recommendation. The Nosler Handbook recommends 52.0 grains of H4350 as the absolute upper end safe load with this round. Also, the load I spoke of above is the most accurate load out of the 20 or so Nosler tested for this setup. See, the Nosler Reloading Guide, 5th edition, page 211. Federal also sells factory ammo now loaded with Nosler Partition bullets.

Hot loads are called hot for a reason. They can do damage to the rifle, the shooter and the meat on the other end (as in render it unedible). This is also a good reason never to buy a used rifle/handgun/shotgun.

Better you use safe loads and develop the knowledge, skills and ability to get within a reasonable range to your quarry.

RE: Out west rifle need help
 

Sure, cannons kill elk too. My last elk came courtesy of a 300 gr A-square from my .375 H&H. Took out the lungs and heart ("sucked them through the exit wound" might be a better description) and the 5x5 still went nearly 100 yards, fortunately downhill TOWARD camp and leaving a foot-wide blood trail.

Yup Shato, you CAN shoot thumpers with the same degree of accuracy you can a standard caliber.

I'm still not convinced though that someone who shoots a standard like a .270 well (I've never owned one, probably never will) would be undergunned with it in the elk woods. Granted, if you're hunting around Yellowstone, you're probably well off leaving the .270and opting for something significantly larger (.338-.375), lest you have problems defending yourself against all those peaceful griz'. I used to hunt elk with a .243, probably borderline irresponsible. I'm perfectly comfortable though with my good old .30-06.

If you're looking for a "second" rifle, I'll chime in that the .30s will be too close to the capabilities of your .270 to make them worth much. If you had a .270 and a .338-.375 class magnum, you could easily hunt the entire continent.

RE: Out west rifle need help
 

I think your idea is sound. You have a .270 so the question is two fold. Do you see yourself buying several more rifles in increasing caliber size? And what else do you see yourself hunting in the future?
Either of the two calibers you mention would be great for your purpose. I have buddies that use both and no problems. If you ever see yourself wanting to step up to the .338 (or bigger), then a .300WM now would be the logical step. If you don't, then getting the bigger bullet of the .325 WSM would be nice. Gives you a good balance between the .300 and the .338!

And for anyone that shoots a lot or would like to shoot their medium/large bore hunting guns and shoot them proficiently, then practice is key. Practice without developing a flinch. Get you a lead sled (or make one as my shooting partner did) and good on ya mate!!! My .338RUM has had around 500 rounds put through it in the last couple years. 97gr of powder and she packs a punch. With 75 lbs of shot on the sled, feels like shooting a .243.
This allows you to shoot 20 or 30 times at a session or more and from my experience, the groups I shoot tend to get better as I you go. Makes a favorite hunting caliber a fun range shooting caliber!!!
A little off the subject, but as most have noted, one of the biggest drawbacks to going up in caliber is being able to proficiently handle the additional recoil.

Just my .02...

RE: Out west rifle need help
 

I still see no sense in getting a 7mm OR 30 caliber rifle. The only logical choice considering he already has .270 is .325wsm,or .338 wm. If those rifles (270 and 32/33 mag)don't cover all bases I'll eat my hat!

RE: Out west rifle need help
 

In the future I see myself going after bear and moose along side of Elk and Mullies. I have thought about the 325. I dont have flinch right now and hope not to develop it.

I can try doing the .270 loads you mentioned JoeBigSky and see what groups I get. To be honest I am also looking for an excuse to buy a rifle as well, but there's no reson not to try that load and give it a shot.

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I see the .325wsm and .338 win m as being basically pretty darn close ballistically so either one will work great.

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My 2 cents, you already have a 270, good all around gun. Of the choices listed I would go with the Rem 700 Mtn in 325 WSM. Why, I have a Rem 700 Mtn in 270 and love the gun, but for elk I shoot a Win 70 XTR Shadow 338 Win mag. The larger caliber (325) will do more than the 300 WSM, I'm talking about BIG BEAR or other large animals. Big bullets = horsepower.

There is always a good reason to buy another gun:)

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I am sorry guys I think I missed something here.A .300wm has 500 to 600 ftlbs on a .270win,so how is that not better? and with a 50gr bigger bullet.I have had a .270win for 25 years and a .300 wm for 20 years and I can see a distinct difference between them.On the range and in the field.