Most people if they ever do have to shoot someone can't hit accurately with a pistol. You may be able to cut the bullseye out when you are practicing but if you have to shoot a person it is a different story. People get excited and the adreneline starts pumping and it is hard for people to shoot. That is where a shotgun works better. The best case is to not have to shoot at all and when you look down the barrel of a shotgun you think twice about arguing with the person. I keep #2 shot in mine it has more pellets than buckshot so you have a better chance of hitting them and it will still stop them in their tracks. I've seen a guy get shot 3 times in the gut with a .38 and get up and run off. He was dumped off at a hospital later that night and died the next day. Though if the guy that shot himwould of had a shotgun the guy never would of made it away.

Hi Jeff,
IMO, most shooting in a home invasion or burglary situation is done at 10 feet or less. When speaking of accuracy how is the shotgun more accurate than the pistol? What is the diameter of the pellet spread at 10 feet?
Believe me, I have a shotgun and a pistol in my room and when hunkered down with all of my family in that room I will have the shotgun in my hands. so I'm not suggesting it is not an effective tool. I am saying that in some situations a pistol can be equally effective and potentially more effective in a home invasion scenrio.
When I mention more effective I am thinking of a veryclose quarters almost hand to hand situation.

I am a pretty good sized guy. 6'3" 240 pounds. I tried the Mossberg pump with the pistol grip, and I quickly learned that it would not be my first choice in the heat of a short quick battle in my home. First of all, I don't trust myself shooting it from the hip, and if I aim it I am sure to bust my lip or lose a tooth from the recoil.

My choice was a double coach gun in 20 guage. It handles extremely well, and a 20 guage has all the power you will ever need at down the hall, or across the room range. It is just the wife and I at home so I go with #3 buckshot since she will be at my side. I know there is sentiment for the sound of a cycled shell from the pump, and I believe a pump is a good choice, but I prefer the silence factor. I am a firm believer if God forbid you have to defend yourself with a gun that you shoot to kill...not scare. The sound of a pump will certainly scare the intruder, but the bullet from his gun will have no idea or give a hoot he just soiled his pants once it's headed in your general proximity.

C. Davis

That's true though ideally the intruder won't be able to get that close before you have to shoot. It is best to use what you feel comfortable with. A friend of mine had to shoot someone that tried to rob him and a friend of his. He was waiting in the truck while his buddy went inside a store to buy something. Well the store couldn't break a hundred so he came back outside and my buddy seen some guy follow him out. So he got his pistol and laid it in his lap. The guy walked up and stuck the gun through the window and tried to rob them. When he stuck the gun inside my buddy shot him in the chest. At really close range a pistol is easier though if the range is a little farther a shotgun is easier to hit with. I wouldn't want either one pulled on me. I had a little .25 auto stuck inmy face before and no matter how small the gun is it looks really big when you look down the barrel of it.

Pretty much anyone in the Law Enforcement or Military field are going to agree a shotgun with the right ammo is a far superior weapon to any pistol. And a 410 pistol in my opinion is the most worthless thing you could have in your hand in that situation. You might be better off throwing the gun at them if it's heavy. Unless you get invaded by squirrels, and then you better hope they are not big ones.

I did some testing a few years ago with a couple of shotguns, different chokes and loads. I was trying to find out how well regular shot would work compared to buckshot at close ranges. The one thing I found out is that the choke you use makes a big difference. The difference between a modified choke and turkey choke at ranges from 10 ft to 10 yards was VERY impressive. I tried shot from target #8 loads up to #4 magnum turkey loads. I won't go into detail, I have a detailed outline on another site I will try and dig up if I can. But all said and done my home defense load is a #4 turkey load with a super full choke. I live in a trailer court. If I live in a bigger house or in the country small buckshot would be my choice.

Sawed off shotguns and cylinder bore chokes might sound cool but take my word for it, a tighter choke performs much better with shot at these distances. And from what I have seen on static targets and different types of game smaller shot like 7 and 8 just doesn't penetrate well enough unless you are at point blank range, especially with a more open choke. Makes an impressive looking wound, but doesn't do any real damage internally. And if the person is wearing heavy clothing or a leather coat bird shot with a modified choke at beyond 10 yards may not even hurt them, other than superficial wounds.

And slugs are way overkill in the penetration department unless you are in a very rural area or expect to shoot through barriers, like a car door or large piece of furniture.

And when I was talking about not having an "evil" looking gun I am not talking about what the police think, but more along along the lines if it happens to go to trial. Most likely your other guns won't be an issue, but the one you used to kill or injure (bad idea) someone with will be evidence in the trial. And along those lines, remember a dead guy can't testify against you in court.

I took an urban defense class many years ago when I lived in California. The three main things they talked about were like I mentioned about not modifying a weapon. Second, shoot to kill and make it look like you were truly in fear for your or your loved ones lives. Don't go walking through the house clearing it like a swat member (unless you are a trained person in this field), or shoot to wound someone then call the police. Two big reasons are that like I said, injured people can sue the crap out of you. Yes, even if they broke into your house. And second it makes it look like you had too much control over the situation. I know that sounds dumb, but a lawyer explained to us how it would play out in a court room. You are better off emptying the gun into the guy than you would be shooting him once and waiting to see what happened.

And the third thing is you have to know the law where you live. In a lot of states and cities you can't just get a gun and shoot someone that comes in your house or yard. In many places you have to prove they were a real threat to your life. In almost all places they HAVE to be IN your home. Shooting someone on your porch will most likely turn out bad for you, even if they were armed. I have a cousin that went to prison for shooting someone in his front yard, and the other guy was armed as well. Crappy law, but the law none the less. And some places you have to tell the intruder to leave and tell them you have a weapon before you shoot them. Of course it's your word against his, and if he's dead that makes it a bit easier. Remember, dead people don't testify.

In most cases they do not suggest you go looking for the person. You retreat to a safe room, yours or the kids bedroom, then call the police and let the intruder know you are armed (or not) and that you have called the police. Then wait for them to come to you. It's easier to defend a position then it is to go searching for a target. In a lot of states and cities they just don't feel your tv is worth a life, even that of a criminal.

This would really depend on the size of your house and how things unfolded though.

And these are only things I was told in a class more than 15 years ago, maybe 20 and my opinions. I am not an officer nor have I ever shot anyone. I have talked to many that have though.

Paul

Definitely a good idea to stay put with the shotgun rather than going out looking around. I am trained to do this kind of stuff, and I wouldn't go looking for the intruder. Having your family in the house makes a big difference. Just call out, "I'm unarmed in the bedroom, please don't hurt me, all the jewelery and money are in here with me!". 5-4-3-2-1 BOOM!

You are kidding rightThat little pistol will blow a hole through you while your still trying to figure out which end is which with your long-gun in close quarters. that pistol; is a Bad Man[:-]

I agree. The racking sound of a shotgun is quite impressive, although not as much when you hear two faint clicks of safeties being clicked off in the living room. I'm sorry. I will never, EVER let someone know I'm about to end their life. I'm a cop, and maybe my training has something to do with it. I'm like Gabe over on warrior talk, shoot them to the GROUND. Get a good pump shotgun(remington 870 is MY personal pref.), put a light on it and LEAVE IT ALONE. You don't want it looking tacti-cool, that'll get you eaten alive in court. If you are asked about the light in court, say you were using it to be able toidentifyyour neighbor in need of sugar from an intruder(yeah, right). I have tritium rifle sights on mine, but again thats a personal thing. A tritium bead could be your thing as as could be tritium ghost ring sights(if you find them, let me know). And one more time,for gooodnesssakes don't let the badguy know your coming armed, just get in the fight and stay there until you win. If he is not courteous enough to knock, i'm not courteous enough to give him a warning.

EDIT TO ADD
A buddy of mine killed someone w/ his duty gun. His gun had a modified trigger, was a 3.5lbs trigger on a glock. When the attorney made mention of it, he claimed he could not accurately shoot his duty gun w/ the 5.5 trigger. He even went on to say that his department's qualifications were not enough to prove to HIM that he could accurately shoot ONLY the badguy w/ his duty gun. In order to not kill a 7 or 8 year old, he made his gun easier to shoot. If you use this testimony in court one day for whatever reason(say, the light), make dang sure you didn't kill little suzie. It just will make your life hard. Also, did i mention you need to shoot the guy to the ground???

Ain't life great .... we all get to have an opinion and it can be true in general or only for us, but either way as long as it works for us, it's all good.

I personally cannot see keeping a loaded shotgun for my wife, on her side of the bed, and expect her to be able to use it effectively in the middle of the night , in the dark..... but I do know she could grab a Taurus Judge quickly with one hand and come up shooting. I have seen her working with various handguns and the girl has got it going on. In fact she is a hell of a shot. I can put any handgun I own in her hands, and she is deadly with it. But I also know if I put a shotgun in her hands and she tried to manuver it to shoot from a dead sleep, if she ever did get to it and get it around, that she might wind up back in that DEAD sleep.

She likes handguns and feels confident with them, so what works for her might not work for you , and what works for you might not work for her... but thats why it is called an opinion. And I don't feel that we need to call names or ridicule others because they do not subscribe to our line of thought.....

Show me someone, who is supposedly a knowledgable professional, who believes as you do , ..... and I'll show you some people who agree with me. Just use what works for you, give people your opinions when someone asks for them, and then let them decide what works best for them, ....... and stay safe. Cause it doesn't matter what you kill the perp with , as long as you kill him.... Dead is dead.

I don't recall seeing anyone name calling? Just giving their opinions or disagreeing with someone else's. I don't think anything said was meant to be mean.

That pistol might be ok if loaded with the pistol cartridge, if you can shoot it well. I don't think I could shoot that cartridge well in that gun though. However with a .410 load I wouldn't suggest it. They are not worth much in a long gun, let alone a pistol. At least not for self defense anyway.

It is pretty much a proven fact that long guns are easier to learn to shoot than a handgun is. Handling and shooting a handgun takes a bit more skill and practice than a shotgun or rifle. And shooting a semi auto adds another factor to it as far as knowing the weapon and how it works. If you want to use a handgun I suggest getting plenty of practice with it.

I think you could teach her to shoot a shotgun effectively in a matter of a few weeks if she is that good with a handgun. Shotguns are pretty simple for the most part. My girlfriend took one lesson at a trap range and by the end could hit about half the clays. And she had never shot a gun before. I think she could handle a shotgun on a human sized target 10 yards away.

I do agree though, go with what YOU feel comfortable with and are proficient with. I would feel at home with either and used a Browning HI Power for years as a defense weapon. As I got older and played more though I just feel a shotgun with the correct load is a superior weapon for this sort of thing. I have seen the damage both will do to targets and live game and the shotgun is by far the winner to me.


A longer barrel is normally more accurate in a pointing situation than a shorter barrel is. It would be easier and quicker to hit with a longer shotgun barrel than it would with a shorter pistol barrel. I can hit center mass on a target pretty much every time with a shotgun by snapping it up and pulling the trigger. This is a bit harder to do with a pistol.

As far as spread goes, depends on the load you use and the choke. My tests showed an average of around 3-4 inches. The thing to keep in mind is this is not a 3 to 4 inch group of 6 bullets. But basically a solid column of shot 3 inches in diameter. Which means if your close enough with the right load and right choke you could blow a hole up to 3 inches in diameter through someone. That is a pretty devastating wound compared to a 9mm or 45 cal.

Your kidding right? Why do people think its that difficult to shoot a shotgun? Shoulder it (if you want to) point and pull the trigger. Not extremely tricky to figure out. If it's not loaded, pull the pump back and push it back up, then point and pull the trigger. Not much different than racking the slide on an auto (except it's easier to pump a shotgun for most women or small people), or picking up a revolver, aiming it and pulling through a long double action trigger accurately.

Here are a few pictures of what three different 12 gauges did to an old speaker box with various loads and chokes.

front view

top view

back view


Here is a link to a post I made a while ago in another forum. It's the last one on that page. The links to the pictures don't work anymore though, I use a different host now.

Bird shot test

Your are right though, they are only my opinions and nothing more.

Paul