RE: 300 Ultra Mag for Brown Bear
 

I do stand corrected that I didn't realize it had that much force. However, I did notice that the guides suggestion of the 338 does produce 5197 ft lbs. Can someone explain the difference in say an additional 1000 ft lbs of force, in terms of stopping power? I am no ballistics genius, nor do I claim to be that is why I would go with what the guide says.

RE: 300 Ultra Mag for Brown Bear
 

If this individual wants to use his pea shooter magnum, let him have at it, I doubt that Mr. Grizzly bear is gonna be too impressed with it. Energy is one of those figures that needs to be taken with a grain of salt, as it means absoutely zilch, when comparing a smaller caliber, to a larger caliber. I would take a .338 Win Mag loaded with 250 grain NP's anyday, over that ultra super duper magnum shooting a .308 caliber 200 grain bullet. Lets face it folks, paper ballistics are just that, uselsss figures that mean very little in the field. Lets put this in perspective, the .338 Lupua firing a 250 grain bullet generates 5100 ft lbs of muzzle energy, while the .416 Remington Magnum firing a 400 grain bullets generates the same 5100 ft lbs, which one would you rather have on your side when a cape buffalo is charging you?

RE: 300 Ultra Mag for Brown Bear
 

If you want a big hole use a 12 ga slug gun. Even with sabots you would be shooting a .50 cal bullet. With a standard rifled slug like brenneke dangerous game slug you would leave a whole the size of a quarter. And some of the newer slug loads are the same as a standard 45-70 load. I mean if you want big and heavy it's hard to beat 70+ caliber and 600 plus grains. Or even 435 grns for a standard sabot slug.

However that is no comparison to a properly constructed bullet at a high velocity. High velocity projectiles do a LOT of damage to tissue, even if the bullet isn't that big. Shoot a varmint with a slug gun, then shoot one with a 22-250. The smaller faster bullet will blow it apart. With the proper bullet any high powered rifle should be very lethal on a bear if you make a good shot. Make a bad shot and you could be using a .50 cal BMG and it might not make a difference.

Paul

RE: 300 Ultra Mag for Brown Bear
 

I think your guide has been sniffing glue. The 30 cal. is more than adequate in the hands of someone who knows how to shoot. I'm not much of a fan of the Ultramag.'s since I'm an advocate for more lead (bigger bullets) over more powder but it'll do it.

RE: 300 Ultra Mag for Brown Bear
 

If one really needs something more than a 30-06 in the .30 caliber then he is advised to step up in caliber.....the 300 magnums extend range a bit but that's the end of their usefulness.

Such cartridges as the 338 Win Mag, .338-06, .35 Whelen, 358Norma Magnum, 9.3X62 Mauser, .375 Ruger, and the .375 H&H are all vastly superior to the .300 Ultra Mag.....a rookie's cartridge!

RE: 300 Ultra Mag for Brown Bear
 

Here's a news flash for you.... I did ALL of my bear hunting on my own, i've never used a guide for bear hunting in my life... I've hunted big bears all over the south central coast of Alaska, onmany of theislands like Kodiakand alsoon the Alaska Peninsula... and the interior.

I started hunting big bears in Alaska inthe early 70's and continued untill the mid 90's... I learned a thing or two along the way, and used many guns/cals/bullets for all of my hunting needs...

I designed and mfg'd bonded core bullets, and sold them by mail order and through the gunshop i started and ran for many of those years... I do know what works, and what doesn't... I also had an ammo mfg license, and sold reloads and new ammo i loaded with my bonded bullets.

BUT, this isn't about me, it's about whether a 300 mag. is enough for brown bears, and i'm with James B and the others who say, "use good bullets" and you don't need a cannon... I've been saying it here for a long long time now because it's what has worked for me and many othersfor many years now...

KEY words..... choose the proper bullet!!

DM

RE: 300 Ultra Mag for Brown Bear
 

AND Proper bullet placement.

The biggestrifle around won't kill the bear if you hit him in the foot. ;)

RE: 300 Ultra Mag for Brown Bear
 

I thought the guide recommended a minimum of .338 Win. Mag. Winchester's and Remington's loads for the .338 WM all produce about 3910-3950 ft lbs of muzzle energy. Are you maybe looking at the .338 Lapua Magnum? That's a completely different weapon.

Are you serious? I would bet that in the history of grizzly hunting, there have been far more grizzlies killed by weapon .308 caliber or less rifles than have been killed by .338+ magnums. I guess none of those grizzlies were very impressed...

RE: 300 Ultra Mag for Brown Bear
 

Yes, and many elephant have fallen to the .303 British, does that make it an adequate choice for hunting them? When hunting game that can hunt back, bigger and heavier is a lot better then smaller and lighter.

RE: 300 Ultra Mag for Brown Bear
 

Ive got to jump back in this again. I haven't yet had the chance to hunt bears, but soon enough, a trip to Kodiak AK is in the works.

I am certainly not an expert in hunting bears, though I do have a very good background in understanding ballistics. Much of the information below, i learned at a Sniper conference in florida from a guest speaker from one of the ammo companies, there to discuss Terminal Balistics. That is, everything that happens to a bullet after it hits your target. Look up some things on terminal ballistics, and it should help those who don't understand some of the advantages of the larger cartidges. keep in mind, I am not saying that it makes them better, because there are some disadvantages too. But I think those have been discussed pretty well in the last 7-8 pages here.

I have no doubt that there have been many more bears killed with the .308 caliber rifles than the .338's. I think that may have more to do with the fact that the .308 caliber is and has been a much more popular vaersitile cartridge for all these years. The .338 has been around since the 50's sure, but it has a more specific purpose that the average joe hunter does not need. The average joe is content to shoot deer and other common game, and make the occasional trip out west, or to canada, or Alaska, or wherever.There are more people I think that can't afford to buy all the cool guy calibers for every game than there are the guys who can buy that ideal rifle for that "big Hunt", or that get to make that hunt every year. That might be why there have been more killed with the .308 caliber. I wont say that proves that anything as far as that caliberbeing more superior. And the fact that less have been shot with .338 does not say that is less superior. There are just more of one out there than the other.

To answer somebody's question from earlier. A larger bullet with a higher ft-lbs will have a more devistating effect. THAT DOES NOT MEAN THAT IT WILL PENETRATE ANY FARTHER. See, when a bullet hits flesh, you get what is called a wound cavity. It is alot like a cavern in the side of a mountain, that isfor lack of better term, kind of football shaped.This is created temporarily when a bullet stikes flesh. The energy creates a "splash" of sorts on the flesh and internal organs, opening up a cavity. The ammount of energy, and bullet type will create larger or smaller cavities. Because Flesh is naturally elastic, it will come back to almost it's original shape and size, only the damage has been done. The shock that this can cause on the organs can cause them to fail, orjust might be enough to drop that bear, or whatever in the event that you just slightly missed that vital spot, or didn't hit it just right. Think of it this way, somebody can hit you hard enough on the chest, right near your heart and make it stop.nothing haspenetrated your heart, butYOU are still DEAD.Same principal with the wound cavity. You mght miss the heart, but the pressure created by the wound cavity can cause it to stop. This of course is in addition to the fact that a bullet has just ripped a hole through flesh, maybe an artery, and some organs too. Might be the difference between the charge, and the animal dropping.

now what does all this mean in the larger vs smaller caliber for hunting. It does not mean that you can't kill a bear with any of the smaller cartridges, because we all know you can. What this does show is: although the bigger hole does not really mean a guarunteed kill, the extra energy, might make the difference if you don't hit in just the right spot.


TO jdbowhunter:

if you think that your .300 RUm is enough, or that you are more comfortable with it take that, and be done with it. It s obvious that it is enough to kill bears with. There are guys here that have used more, and guys that have used less, so we now it is enough. I don't know enough about your rifle to really know. The guid may have a reason for asking you to bring something larger. I don't really know. Some guys would say, you really should, others say you don't have to, but they would, and others say they wouldn't at all. Whatever you decide, good luck on the hunt, I am no doubt jealous. I have to wait at least one more year before I go. Have fun and be safe.