RE: Accuracy
 

Most of my rifles are capable of sub-one minute groups. Only two of them have so called "premium" barrels. Most years i fire 5-20 thousand rounds of .223 to .30-06,most arehand loads.When i'm having a good day with little or no wind, my favorite .308easily shoots .5 inch three shot groups at 100 yards. It has a Remington factory barrel.

RE: Accuracy
 

I totally agree.The cooper that I mentioned earlier is what I would classify as a semi custom rifle. Itsas itcame from the factory with the exception that I adjusted the trigger to 13 Ounces. it is capable of sub 1/2 MOA with the occasional zero group if all the stars ailign properly. But, I would not say that every cooper is that good.

There is such a thing as flyers though. I can take my 6 BR, that is capable of sub 1/4 MOA accuracy and if I'm not shooting well that day I would be hard pressed to keep it under 3/4. Some days the shooter just doesn't have it together. A flinch here or a slight pull there, or a misread on the wind and you've thrown a flier outside of your nice little group. It happens. Fliers are not mystical though, they generally can be classified as operator error!;)

You want to know the quickest way to make a factory rifle sub MOA? throw the barrel away and put a custom barrel on it, and let someone else shoot it.:D

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RE: Accuracy
 

I have owned many, many rifles over the years. Some have shot well out of the box, some required a little tinkering, some required re-bedding and perhaps a trigger job. I have had rifles re-barreled. All were load-developed for. None shot .5" consistently. Ones that did that on occasion more frequently shot 1'' as the norm. Those are what I refer to as a sub-MOA gun. A previous poster was correct when he said that most flyers are really part of the group, but I will add that applies if we are absolutely positive ALL the components of our reloads are totally uniform. Another thing that I sometimes find a little fault with is shooting 3-shot groups. I understand that most people will justify this by saying that 3 shots is all you probably will ever get at game. That may be so. However, in my opinion, that is not enough to indicate proper potential of a load combination. 5-shot groups will tell a lot more than the 3-shot groups. Weather conditions can play a big part in this, also. A gun that shoots great at 30 deg. may not shoot that same load well at all at 75 deg.
I do feel that there are sub-MOA guns out there, but I don't feel that too many of them exist in the hands of those who aren't as fussy as others.

RE: Accuracy
 

Never heard of "flyers" not counting as part of the group until i came on this forum. If you are shooting for group, of course the "flyers" count.

RE: Accuracy
 

When I talk about "flyers it's the shot that opens up the total group to
3/4".

RE: Accuracy
 

I had two rifles that could do it, I sold one recently and the other will be buried with me. My sporterized AK(223) was doing 2.5-3" goups at 100 with iron sights, so I put on a 4x scope and the groups only went down to about 2". I got one group that was .75", but have yet to repeat that feat. I can see my target better but that's what the gun can do with the cheap silver bear ammo. I haven't tried the scope yet with the good stuff.

RE: Accuracy
 

I agree that the internet is a magical place where mystical things constantly happen but if you think claims of sub 1 inch groups with a factory rifles are exaggerated then you need to dig up some of the threads on long range shooting. Apparently heart shooting a deer at 1500 yards backwards over your shoulder using a mirror is easy as pie and those of us who can't do it just don't practice enough or take enough care with the quality of equipment we use. LOL! That said I do own 2 rifles that will shoot 1 inch or better groups if I do my part. The other centerfire rifles I own will shoot about 1.5 inch groups and thats fine for hunting purposes.

RE: Accuracy
 

I have no doubt that many 1" and sub 1" guns are out there. I have a Rem 700 and an A-bolt that can outshoot me on any day. The vast majority of shooters are not limited by their equipment but vice versa.

When I was younger I believed most of my accuracy "problems" (1"-2" groups) were caused by my equipment and thus I was always pulling out my wallet to acquire that new magical weapon that would allow me to reach my true potential. After much money spent and many days shaking my head, the onset of middle age finally made me realize the "problem", me. I realize now that I will never be a great marksman but I also know that a whitetail does not care if I shoot .75" or 1.75" groups.

RE: Accuracy
 

I had a trap shoot to go to today and decided id take my 204 out to shoot if we got done early. Well we did and i shot one of my better days today so i figured id share what my factory rifle is capable of.

This is 5 shots at 100 yards.