RE: Accuracy
 

I'm gunna get shot here,and I agree with you mostly,but here goes my own thinking on this. To begin with,I am a gunsmith for 26+ years and ex competition shooter/accuracy freak. In vast majority of cases you are right. When I talk if a 1/2 rifle,it should be able to group into 1/2 inch at ANY and every time I shoot it. I do build rifles that group that good. However-these are far from factory rifles. In fact,about only things that are factory on these are reciever and those are blueprinted,fitted,trued,or otherwise modified. We are talking in excess of $400 just for barrel blank,prior to fitting,turning,threading,and chambering. I do believe we all need to optimize our rifle/load/scope/our skill to shoot the bestwe can within reason. All this having been said,most people(including me) make too much of a rifle's accuracy. A rifle that will CONSISTANTLY group 1.5 inches at always same point of impact,is better than a tighter shooter that shifts point of impact every time you pick it up. After all,a 2" rifle will still hit deer farther than we can while under field conditions.

RE: Accuracy addiction
 

I just read a bit in a magazine on a very similar topic.

The author was at a range and another fellow was shooting a bunch of different handloads of diffrent types of bullete to see what he would use on an upcoming Elk hunt. The other fellow had it down to two diffrent bullets he liked and was shooting his final groups to deside.

He shot a 1.6 in. group with a 180 gr. spitzer type bullet and a 1.1 in. group with a 180 gr. round nose bullet. And said "I guess that desides it, I'll take the round nose bullets that are more accurate."

The author offered to let the fellow run a couple shots through his Chonogragh and they found the spizers were going 2558 fps. and the round nose, 2267. Down range the spizers would have had even a greater speed advantage, trajectory advantage and energy advantage.However the fellow thought the better group was the better bullet to hunt with.

Robin in Rocky

RE: Accuracy addiction
 

Well I'm one of those guys I guess. I don't own a rifle that doesn't shoot sub MOA. Now none of them are true factory rifles, most have had extensive modifications. If I buy a rifle and fiddle with it for awhile and can't get it sub MOA I either use the action for a custom job or trade it off.

Heck, I've even been known to sell/trade real shooters. This last weekend I was reminded when I watched my dad put together a .074" center to center 5 shot group with a Cooper Varminter 22-250 that I sold him to help finance a Elk trip a couple of years ago. He giggled when he saw my expression as we measured the group. You can believe me or not it really doesn't matter.

RE: Accuracy
 

Can't really say I care much about sub-M.O.A. groups. I have one dedicated big game rifle (factory 700 ADL, shooting factory ammo, with a fair amount of copper in the bore at any given time) that I consistently group 1.25-1.5". It's fun to shoot even if I do get that bad flyer, and the deer don't know the difference whether I liquify a lung an inch this way or that.

To me it's all about putting that first shot where you want it, not shooting a jagged hole from the bench. Good enough is good enough.

RE: Accuracy addiction
 

While I agree the majority of (70%)shooters are fair ,20% are poor and the rest good with perhaps 1/2 of that outstanding.
With the exception of2 centerfire rifles I have owned all are capable of delivering better than MOA groups. The Rifle that couldn't was a Browning BLR in 308 that I purchase in 76. But considering it was only used with the factory open sights for hunting in a swamp where 20 yards was a long shot the 1 3/4 -2" groups @ 100 didn't mater much. The other is a Winchester 375 H&H which gives me1 1/4" groups. I've owned two Weatherby MK V's that delivered 1" or better at any time with Weatherby's 180gr nosler parts.
I shoot either Hornady or Federal Premium ammo in what ever bullet shoots best and have great results in 22-250, 308 (own 3 others besides the blr)and a 7 Rem mag
If off a bench and sandbag I shoota group greaterthan 3/4 " center to center with a "flyer" and you better believe I'm going crazy and checking the screws and out come the crony if I get more than one of those. The norm for me is 1/2 " or better.

RE: Accuracy addiction
 

Most rifles with good barrel. will shoot one inch or less when you find thats rifle best load. You can spend a lot of time and ammo finding that load and a good trigger is very important. Not all rifles will do it but some of us as already mentioned, don't keep those rifles around. Now, Am I capable every day of shooting one inch or less groups? NO, NO, NO. There are days that I try a few shots and just put the gun away. If I am shooting well, then its a good day to measure groups.:D


A One inch rifle however with a good shooter behind it, should be able to do it all the time if the ammo and weather is consistent.

If I can cover three shots with a poker chip, thats good hunting accuracy for the ranges I hunt which seldom exceeds 250 yards.

RE: Accuracy addiction
 

The vast majority of those that have replied have made my point. The average shooter with the average rifle and ammo is not capable of CONSISTENTLY shooting under 1". Sure if I put enough ammo through a gun that consistently shoots 2" I will eventually get a group beneath 1". This sure as hell does not mean that I have a sub moa rifle. Many shooters on this site have sub moa rifles but they are not the norm. I also believe that those that consistently shoot sub moa are not your average shooters. They are shooters that invest more time and energy into their abilities and equipment then the vast majority of us.

RE: Accuracy
 

lots and lots of sub MOA groups are shot on the internet;) not that i dont believe some people....but sometimes i know it aint true...or they are measuring 1 shot groups:D

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RE: Accuracy
 

All of this reminds me of a remark made by either Warren Page or Jack O'Connor, about other gun writers of that era: "You'd be amazed to see all the game they've shot...with their typewriters!