HEAD0001

To srhull: I can honestly say the finest production gun in the world is American made. It is called a Cooper. I did not suggest a Cooper, because the question was Sako vs. Kimber. I have owned many Kimber's, and a few Sako's. They are both truly fine firearms. You would have to show me how a Sako is superior to a Kimber. The true difference is the weight of the rifles. Kimber has went lighter, and towards a hunting rifle. The Sako's are slightly heavier, which may make them a slightly better shooter than a Kimber. Again you would have to show me this, I know how my Kimber's shoot. But I believe the author of this post is wanting a hunting rifle, and not a target rifle.

As far as the buy American line,I believe ifyou are comparing apples to apples, and with the Kimber and Sako you are. Then you should buy American. I own foreign products, such as optics. I do not thinkany American scope compares to some foreign scopes. My go to rifles wear Swarovski glass. As well as my binoculars. ButI can assure you if America made optics in this class, then I would buy them. Tom.

pdoughertyMU

dang, just looked at the coopers and they are incredible. guaranteed 3 shot group with .5 of an inch at 100,and they are in the same price range as a sako. Why don't they make bigger calibers? It looks like the .308 is the biggest. If they had a .300 mag i would probably go with them.

I have heard some negative things about sako 85's bolt design, and how it isn't as good as the kimber. Chuck says that if you push the bolt forward half way, bring it back and then push all the way forward it will jam due to trying to double feed. I'm sure that would be a hard situation to encounter, but i guess it still gives a point to the kimber.

as of now, looking at traits of a gun, -- Accuracy, Action, Design, durability, Price

I would give Sako a +1 for accuracy because of the guarantee, which kimber lacks
I would give Kimber +1 for the action
I like the look of a sako better, so I have to give Sako +1 for design
Durability they seem to be tied.
and Price the kimber gets +1

Of course that leaves a tie. But at the same time, I would weight accuracy more than anything. So right now I want to go with the Sako. Just because I know that If my gun is not shooting sub 1 MOA, I can just return it and get a brand spankin new one. where with the kimber, If i get one that won't for the life of it shoot under 1, I would just have to live with it, as i would have no real reason for sending it back.


But I'm with shrull in wanting to hear how you think sako has gone down the tubes. This will be a huge investment for me (im in college) and really want to find the best rifle that truley will last me a lifetime and that I will never regret buying or wishing that I had bought something Else. If you have anything negative to say about sako, Please speak up, because I am very interested in hearing the negative.

HEAD0001

Cooper is selling more rifles than they can make. They stay with short actions for accuracy reasons(just my opinion). If you are wanting magnum performance then look closely at the 6.5 X 284 cartridge. It is near magnum performace in a short action. It is also the latest hot caliber for 1000 yard shooter's. If you want to know more about the cartridge go to Benchrest forum.

I for one do not think Sako went down the tubes. As stated earlier, I believe they are a fine rifle. However I like the handling characteristics of the Kimber a "wee" bit better. The Sako feels a "wee" bit "klunky" to me. Again I would buy American. Sorry but I am a die hard union man in WV. Or is that "gun totin red neck", I am not sure which one some times. Tom.

ColoradoElk

Ireally don't have a need for a single shot center-fire rifle. When Cooper beginsdistributing their rifles with magazines, I will be interested.

I prefer Sako over Kimber, but looked at both.Sako is "going down the tube" at the same rate as other manufacturers. Compare the "Sako of the 1980s" (the Sako AV) tothe Sako of the '90s (model 75) to the current 85 and you see a steady decline in quality. On average you would have to say the pre-64 Win models are more desireable thanproduction just before the plant closed. Also, those "late Win" models will probably be better than whatever Browning puts out.

My biggest complaint with Sako these days is that they changed the packaging on the Optiloks.You can no longer purchase just the plastic insert, you have to purchase a complete set of rings, which seems ridiculous.

rapidron790

I also looked at the Kimber before buying my Tikka T3. There were to many negitive reviews on the Kimber for my liking, and the price was a factor too. For that kind of money I expect it to "come when I call it" if you know what I mean.
I chose the Tikka because it is made by a company that has been making quality guns for years, they are backed, imported, and maybe even boughtby a company that has been making quality guns for years. So I expected nothing less than a quality gun to come out of this and that's exactly what I got. Not only did I get a quality gun I got a 6lb gun that shoots 1" MOA groups at 100 yards out of the box, with the right ammo.
Now I'm trying to fine tune it to my liking (1/2" MOA groups at 100 yards)
As you can tell I'm very optimistic.
I would go with another Tikka, I don't think it can be beat in quality/price
combined.
I'm waiting for them to make the 325wsm and it will be my next purchase.
Good luck making your decision.

srhull

Cooper is a fine firearm yes, but to my knowledge they only create short action which is fine as a 7-08 is arguably the best whitetail caliber there is but I prefer the .270 so...

Back to Sako vs Kimber. Weight was mentioned. The Kimber is only noticably lighter when comparing the 84M which is 5lbs 5oz, but once you step into the WSM and long action calibers they are 6lbs 5oz while the comparible Sako 85 synthetic or the Sako 75 Finnlight is right at 6lbs 8oz. Are you going to reallly feel the difference in 3oz give or take if I'm off a tad from my memory.

Action yes Kimber does have the mauser action. Sako is touting a controlled action in their 85 which it is not a true mauser controlled type action but I will have to say also that I have not personally heard of a Sako action failing.

Kimber does have a nicer built synthetic stock than Sako for sure, but the Sako fits me better... (personal opinion based on my build)

Bellow is a link to a Kimber Function Poll just to give some validity to my statements about Kimber QC quality.
http://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthr...amp;PHPSESSID=

pdoughertyMU I am in close to your same situation. While I am a few years out of college I am married with newborn and don't have the means to buy every firearm that strikes my fancy. I do want something that will last though and I think either would be a winner but I also do not want to be in the position to ship the rifle back if it does not preform to standards. I am currently set on a Sako after diliberation between Kimber and Sako.

Anyway buy what works best for you, fit, feel, the one that gives you piece of mind, whether its American or not.

pdoughertyMU

DANG! that is terrible!


I think that post has persuaded me towards the sako! almost half can't shoot 1 or below and they all seem to have feeding problems!

I don't know who would buy one after reading that.

It was nothing but negative that went on and on. It seemed like the only ones who didn't have problems were those who had multiple kimber rifles, but even those guys had a few of theirs that had to go back or was a "lemon".

That was shocking.

pdoughertyMU

any thoughts on the sako grey wolf?

srhull

Yes I gathered the same from the site. Those guys at the site expect a lot from their guns but also know alot so its good to see their opinion. There are quite a few gun writers on there.

Anyway I just purchased a used Sako 75 Finnlight 270 Win today. I would have ultimatly gotten the 85 you are talking about if I had to get new. I would recommend you find a store with them and feel both the grey wolf (laminate) and the synthetic and wood. There is some weight difference in the grey wolf and the synthetic so it will make them feel different even with the same shape stock. They grey wolf looks great though. I really liked it. The model I got though was synthetic. Since I went used I didn't have as much choice but I did like the lighter weight.

After you look/feel them if you can't get a good price at your local gun shop check out www.gunbroker.com. I found this deal at the link bellow. The seller which is a gun dealer stated he would sell them for $1239 shipped to a FFL dealer, which is his reserve price also. That is about as good a price as I could find for a new one. The only gun shop here that sells them wants 1500 before tax.

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/Vie...?Item=63493186

bugsNbows

Here's my $.02. I have a Sako 75 in 30/06 and a Kimber 84M in .308. I like them both but each have +'s and -'s. The Kimber is lighter and has the 3 position (model 70 type) safety which I love. The Sako has a 2 position push safety and does feel heavier and / or blocky. For me, the Sako is more accurate and steadier to hold. I don't reload so it's all factory stuff. The Sako has been @ 1 inch no problem on a varied diet. The Kimber has had no malfunctions at all, but has been closer to 1.5 inches. I have some Corbon DPX 130's on order to try and see how the Kimber likes them. I've not shot a Sako 85, but did fondle one at the gun store a while back. It was very nice! The Grey Wolf's are dandy, seemed even heavier than the wooden stocked models but were well put together. If the Grey Wolf was available with the 3 position safety I'd buy one tomorrow. For me, Sako is #1 and Kimber is #2.