Is the .308 really second class to the .30-06?
12-17-2006, 11:48 PM
#41
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location:
Posts: 1,345
RE: Is the .308 really second class to the .30-06?
I've been gone awhile but let me throw in my 2 cents
The 7mm-06...that's the 280Rem. I believe. NOT the 270Win. Both come from the 30-06 case necked down.
The 30-06 is only superior to the 308 when 180+gr bullets are used. Simply due to its larger powder capacity. The 308 fits into a short action. The 308 is slightly more effecient with its case capacity though. This means less powder in the 308 to duplicate 30-06 velocities. Less powder being used is less recoil. (Only slightly...but still). This makes a lighter rifle and, theoretically a "stiffer" rifle. Stiffer, again in theory, is more accurate. Remember also that a lighter rifle will recoil more... so the matter of less powder can quickly become moot. Don't jump to conclusions. The 30-06 can/is every bit as accurate as the 308. That has much to do with the rifle and little to due with the cartridge. The 30-06 will push bullets 150-200fps faster...this means it will shoot them ever so slightly flatter. That shorter action though, remember that? Well add a inch or two to the barrel length and TADA!!! Now you have two 30 cal guns that shoot like ballistic twins. Bottom line: There's not an animal on earth that will notice any difference. Only the very very very best marksman on earth could tell the difference...and only at very long ranges.
Flip a coin. Spin a bottle. If you think you really need that extra 150fps I'd advise you to skip over both calibers 'cause you must be shooting something with Human Tar Tar on the menu, or an undiagnosed suffer of Magnumitis. In either case neither would be for you.
The 7mm-06...that's the 280Rem. I believe. NOT the 270Win. Both come from the 30-06 case necked down.
The 30-06 is only superior to the 308 when 180+gr bullets are used. Simply due to its larger powder capacity. The 308 fits into a short action. The 308 is slightly more effecient with its case capacity though. This means less powder in the 308 to duplicate 30-06 velocities. Less powder being used is less recoil. (Only slightly...but still). This makes a lighter rifle and, theoretically a "stiffer" rifle. Stiffer, again in theory, is more accurate. Remember also that a lighter rifle will recoil more... so the matter of less powder can quickly become moot. Don't jump to conclusions. The 30-06 can/is every bit as accurate as the 308. That has much to do with the rifle and little to due with the cartridge. The 30-06 will push bullets 150-200fps faster...this means it will shoot them ever so slightly flatter. That shorter action though, remember that? Well add a inch or two to the barrel length and TADA!!! Now you have two 30 cal guns that shoot like ballistic twins. Bottom line: There's not an animal on earth that will notice any difference. Only the very very very best marksman on earth could tell the difference...and only at very long ranges.
Flip a coin. Spin a bottle. If you think you really need that extra 150fps I'd advise you to skip over both calibers 'cause you must be shooting something with Human Tar Tar on the menu, or an undiagnosed suffer of Magnumitis. In either case neither would be for you.
12-18-2006, 05:26 AM
#42
Guest
Posts: n/a
RE: Is the .308 really second class to the .30-06?
ORIGINAL: TerryM
Unless you handload to get the most out of the .30-06 then there is virtually no difference between the two since the 06 is loaded quite mild to avoid blowing up old military rifles. No game animal will ever know thedifference and I have taken moose with both with no difference at all.
Unless you handload to get the most out of the .30-06 then there is virtually no difference between the two since the 06 is loaded quite mild to avoid blowing up old military rifles. No game animal will ever know thedifference and I have taken moose with both with no difference at all.
12-18-2006, 06:05 AM
#44
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location:
Posts: 289
RE: Is the .308 really second class to the .30-06?
I wish I had put it in my first post, but as most everyone should know the .308 is a shortened version of the 30-06.
Shortened solely for ease of feeding in the Springfield M14.
They changed the casejust enough to chamber faster and smoother yet deliver the ballistics as close as possible to the .308-1906 Springfield.
As close as possible is NOT as good, although the .308 is superb.
This change also opened up a whole new "CLASS" to the american shooter....
The Short Action Class
Shortened solely for ease of feeding in the Springfield M14.
They changed the casejust enough to chamber faster and smoother yet deliver the ballistics as close as possible to the .308-1906 Springfield.
As close as possible is NOT as good, although the .308 is superb.
This change also opened up a whole new "CLASS" to the american shooter....
The Short Action Class
12-18-2006, 08:52 PM
#45
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location:
Posts: 1,572
RE: Is the .308 really second class to the .30-06?
ORIGINAL: bigcountry
You show me factory loaded data then that gets the ballistics of the 308 within 80fps, (except that crap hornady data).
You show me factory loaded data then that gets the ballistics of the 308 within 80fps, (except that crap hornady data).
The best 180 gr load for the .06 is 2880. Pretty close.
The .308 could probably be hot loaded up to 2800.
That's "crap" factory data from Federal. "Crap" Hornady data will tell you the same thing given equal bullet weights. 150 gr. .308 is 3000 fps, .06 is 3100 fps. Pretty close.
I saw a table somewhere the showed all the cartridges and the .308 had the highest fps and energy per grain of powder out of anything.
12-18-2006, 09:33 PM
#46
Guest
Posts: n/a
RE: Is the .308 really second class to the .30-06?
ORIGINAL: BrutalAttack
The best 180 gr load for the .308 is 2740.
The best 180 gr load for the .06 is 2880. Pretty close.
The .308 could probably be hot loaded up to 2800.
That's "crap" factory data from Federal. "Crap" Hornady data will tell you the same thing given equal bullet weights. 150 gr. .308 is 3000 fps, .06 is 3100 fps. Pretty close.
I saw a table somewhere the showed all the cartridges and the .308 had the highest fps and energy per grain of powder out of anything.
ORIGINAL: bigcountry
You show me factory loaded data then that gets the ballistics of the 308 within 80fps, (except that crap hornady data).
You show me factory loaded data then that gets the ballistics of the 308 within 80fps, (except that crap hornady data).
The best 180 gr load for the .06 is 2880. Pretty close.
The .308 could probably be hot loaded up to 2800.
That's "crap" factory data from Federal. "Crap" Hornady data will tell you the same thing given equal bullet weights. 150 gr. .308 is 3000 fps, .06 is 3100 fps. Pretty close.
I saw a table somewhere the showed all the cartridges and the .308 had the highest fps and energy per grain of powder out of anything.
I tell you what. I have the chronos, I have the rifles. I will put my money up. You show me a 308 that kick out a 180gr bullet at 2800fps with hunting accuracy, thats 1MOA, and we will talk money. You can't do it. I have proved it time and time again, light magnum data is useless, and I have yet to see it live up to its claim. We have an office in denver, and I go out once or twice a year. You bring your money and tell me where.
In fact, I doubt you have loaded the first round.
12-18-2006, 09:52 PM
#47
Typical Buck
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Denver, Colorado
Posts: 599
RE: Is the .308 really second class to the .30-06?
That is getting down to the nitty gritty....
An old saying, "money talks and bs walks"....
Since I'm in Denver I'd be glad to hold the money, act as referee,observe/judge the results, name the winner and disburse accordingly.
An old saying, "money talks and bs walks"....
Since I'm in Denver I'd be glad to hold the money, act as referee,observe/judge the results, name the winner and disburse accordingly.
12-18-2006, 09:56 PM
#49
Guest
Posts: n/a
RE: Is the .308 really second class to the .30-06?
ORIGINAL: EKM
That is getting down to the nitty gritty....
An old saying, "money talks and bs walks"....
Since I'm in Denver I'd be glad to hold the money, act as referee,observe/judge the results, name the winner and disburse accordingly.
That is getting down to the nitty gritty....
An old saying, "money talks and bs walks"....
Since I'm in Denver I'd be glad to hold the money, act as referee,observe/judge the results, name the winner and disburse accordingly.
12-18-2006, 11:35 PM
#50
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location:
Posts: 1,572
RE: Is the .308 really second class to the .30-06?
ORIGINAL: bigcountry
Man, you about dense. You said it outperformed. I mean come on. Who cares about 9 extra grains when reloading.
I tell you what. I have the chronos, I have the rifles. I will put my money up. You show me a 308 that kick out a 180gr bullet at 2800fps with hunting accuracy, thats 1MOA, and we will talk money. You can't do it. I have proved it time and time again, light magnum data is useless, and I have yet to see it live up to its claim. We have an office in denver, and I go out once or twice a year. You bring your money and tell me where.
In fact, I doubt you have loaded the first round.
Man, you about dense. You said it outperformed. I mean come on. Who cares about 9 extra grains when reloading.
I tell you what. I have the chronos, I have the rifles. I will put my money up. You show me a 308 that kick out a 180gr bullet at 2800fps with hunting accuracy, thats 1MOA, and we will talk money. You can't do it. I have proved it time and time again, light magnum data is useless, and I have yet to see it live up to its claim. We have an office in denver, and I go out once or twice a year. You bring your money and tell me where.
In fact, I doubt you have loaded the first round.
I guess I don't understand what you mean. You don't think I loaded the first round? I don't reload. That is the Federal load that I shoot.
I havea couple of targets here I'll be happy to post them tomorrow. One is about sub 1/2 MOA at 100 yrds using the 180 gr. load going 2740. I also have one that is ~0.6" @ 200 yrds with the same load.
So far you haven't proved anything except you have a big mouth and you aren't able to come up with any facts to back your opinions. My numbers aren't from the Hornady Light Magnum sorry.
I don't need to spout off or prove anything. Especially notto the likes of you. I use that load in my gun. I have the gun in my hand. I actually shoot the gun. According to you that makes me an expert on the subject. Remember?
But I'm just a dumb kid what the hell would I know over a distinguished gentlesir/engineer/handloader extrodanaire like yourself. Far be it from me to dare question you.
