Quit talking about the 7mm-08
 

You guys talk so damn highly about the 7-08 that if you dont stop soon I think I am going to buy one even if i dont need it .

RE: Quit talking about the 7mm-08
 

You'll see the light

RE: Quit talking about the 7mm-08
 

It may be a good deer round but that is about it. It doesn't have near the power to be an effective elk or larger big game round.

7mm-08 doesn't perform better than the .308. It's has about 300 ft/lbs less energy at 300 yards and it still drops nearly -8 inches at 300 yards.

.308 drops -8.1 inches at 300 yards and retains about 300 ft/lbs more energy which puts it in the elk/bear conversation.

Plus you have the option of all the different bullets and factory loads in the .308. And it has mild recoil.

RE: Quit talking about the 7mm-08
 

Which ballistics are you talking about because I just went to the federal sight and comparing the 140 7mm to the 150 and 165 308 the 7 outshines the .308

RE: Quit talking about the 7mm-08
 

I have a 7X57 (and handload for it) so I don't really need a 7mm-08.

Robin down under

RE: Quit talking about the 7mm-08
 

I have been singing the praises of the 7mm-08 for 15 + years. I bought myself one in the Rem. Model 7. I wanted a light , quick and easy handling gun for tower stands or climbing stands. Man did I get my wish. That is beyond a shadow of a doubt, my most favorite gun to hunt with. The only thing I might would wish for a do over about it is I would love for it to be a stainless laminate. But you will never hear me curse the caliber.

RE: Quit talking about the 7mm-08
 

I'm using Federals ammuntion catalog.

I'm comparing the best available loads for each cartridge.

.308: over 1900 ft/lbs and drop -8.1 inches at 300 yards

7mm-08: just over 1600 drop -7.7 inches at 300 yards

I'm not even throwing the Hornady Light Magnum SST .308 in there. Those loads are in a class by themselves.

RE: Quit talking about the 7mm-08
 

Well they make a light mag for a 7-08 too, but I'll give ya that it's not quite as good as the 308, with the 3ft/lb of pounds less that the 7-08 has at 300 yards.

RE: Quit talking about the 7mm-08
 

Nice. I didnt' see that 7mm-08 load. The Federal High Energy .308 still out performs it.


It still isn't worth the cost of shooting a bastardized cartridge. Having dozens of bullet choices in a .308 more than makes up for any small performance gain from a 7mm-08. The majority of the other .308 loads out perform the 7mm-08.

RE: Quit talking about the 7mm-08
 

I wish someone would tell my Ruger M77MKII that the .308 is a mild recoiling load!

RE: Quit talking about the 7mm-08
 

My A-Bolt lightweight stalker 308 doesn't know its a light recoil gun either.[:@]. I Love the 08's both the 3 and the 7..

Hey X man, you really do need one.:DJust to keep the 243 company.;)

RE: Quit talking about the 7mm-08
 

Hey, James B. ......Did your SPS arrive yet? Wondering if you got it and how you like it so far. Are you going to load for it? Those 7-08's love home made meals, so to speak. Just curious.............

RE: Quit talking about the 7mm-08
 

Fixed!

RE: Quit talking about the 7mm-08
 

Anything a 30 caliber can do a 7mm can do better with less recoil. JMHO.

RE: Quit talking about the 7mm-08
 

I will tell ya don't waste the cash,buy a 280 rem you will be much happier.
I listened to everyone on how GREAT the 7mm-08 was.Got myself a Remington Mdl 7 in 7mm-08 nice trim package with a 2-7 scope.Traded it on this site 2 years ago on a 30-06 a-bolt,traded the a-bolt and bought a .280 rem.I'm now much happier.

Maybe I was expecting to much of the7-08,but I was not impressed shooting deer and watching them run 150-200 yds after the shot.I know alot of you guys find that exceptable,but I don't JMO.
I was using Federal 140 gr Noslers.
BBJ

RE: Quit talking about the 7mm-08
 

It depends which nolser load that you were using,federal lists four different nosler bullets.I found that when I used the partition,deer always ran a bit,but with the ballistic tip,they ran much less.

RE: Quit talking about the 7mm-08
 

Wow, I've never had one go more than 30 yards, using a smaller/weaker .243 with 100 gr. PSP Core Lokt's. You sure you hit them in the right spot?

RE: Quit talking about the 7mm-08
 

Well any ballistic tip is suspect IMO.

RE: Quit talking about the 7mm-08
 

Yes stubble I was using the 140grNosler Partion.The shots might have been a little long for the 7-08 to 250-350 yds were the norm.
Yes ipscshooter I was hitting them in the right spot,just behind the shoulder,just like I shoot everything else,double lung 'em

But thats like everything else,some guns work for some guys and others don't.Thats why we have so may other rounds and actions.
BBJ

RE: Quit talking about the 7mm-08
 

I think that compraison needs to be made with loads of equal sectional density and try it again....since we are playing the numbers game..

Same bullet equal sectional density..

Nosler solid base 7-08 140 gr .248 sd. Same bullet from 308 165 gr .248 sd.

From 2006 Federal catalog.

Muzzle Velocity 300 yd vel. 500 yd. vel.

7-08 2880 2306 1963
308 2670 2079 1732


Muzzle energy 300 yd. en. 500 yd. en.
7-08 2579 1654 1198
308 26131583 1099



Traj for 1.5 sight in.200yd 300yd 500 yd.
7-08zero 7.3 42.7
308zero 8.952.5



Now with an apple to apple compraison Im gonna sit back and let you guys hash it out...

Just stating an honest equal compraison....not even gonna add my opinion.




Oh yeah... I might add...all I did was post the info for whoever wants to see it...


If you dont wanna see it...feel free to skip my post and move on.... if you dont see your caliber listed here...feel free to add it.

RE: Quit talking about the 7mm-08
 

Just exactly how many elk have you personallyshot with the 7MM-08? Or with any caliber for that matter. All these charts and tables you pour over will tell that the 7MM-08 hits at 250 yards about the same as the .280 does at 300 yards, or the 7 Rem Mag does at 350 yards - or the 7MM Ultra Mag does at 400 yards. Impact velocity, bullet construction, and shot placement are what matter here.

RE: Quit talking about the 7mm-08
 

If you shot deer with a 7mm-08 that consistently ran 150-200 yards then you are a piss poor shot my friend. No deer hit in the heart lung area with a 140 gr bullet from a 7mm-08 is going 200 yards. You can go spray that bull###t on some 12 year old special ed kid that's never hunted and maybe he will buy it. No one else will however. I haveused a 7mm-08 as one of my two primarydeer rifles for the past5 years and I have yet to have a deer, regardless of size, make it 40 yards after the shot. Most went nowhere at all. If you can shoot a 7mm-08 is all you could ever need for deer. If you can't shoot then even a 416 Rigby won't help you.

RE: Quit talking about the 7mm-08
 

Arguing semantics isn't going to prove anything. I don't know why you wouldn't use the best load available. I also see you studiously ignored the Hornady Light Magnum loads.

I'm not going to argue that 7mm bullet isn't more efficient because it is....but the factory has loaded the .308 to the nuts and it performs better...peroid. Perhaps a handloader can wring more from a 7mm-08 so that is surpasses the .308. I can only speak to factory loads.

Also there are distinct disadvantages to shooting a bastardized caliber. Higher ammo cost, lack of guns in that caliber, lack of bullet/load choices etc.

I'm not saying the 7mm-08 isn't a fantastic round, I'm saying the slight performance edge (if any) isn't worth it unless you're just a fan.

RE: Quit talking about the 7mm-08
 

Of course you must realize that the 7mm-08 is also available in light magnum loads.

If you are so concerned about the cost of ammunition,why even consider the light magnum loads?They are more expensive.Besides the 7mm-08 is available in many rifles by many manufacturers ans there are many factory loads available.The 308 being available in more guns does not make it perform any better.Since there are many suitable 7mm-08 loads,having more isn't a big advantage.

Then again you were so excited about the 300rsaum.You would be hard pressed to find a cartridge available in less rifles and with fewer factory loads available.Make up your mind.:D

RE: Quit talking about the 7mm-08
 

I don't know who this is directed to but I'll answer anyway.

I haven't shot elk with a 7mm-08. I have shot many elk with several other calibers including 280, 300 win mag, 308 and 270. but I don't need to list my qualifications for the likes of you. Personal experience isn't worth a whole lot. If everyone just shot what they saw work then we would all be shooting .30-'06s and wouldn't bother trying to develop anything else.

Also, individual kill shots on animals vary widely. A deer shot with a 300 win mag can run 100 yards where as one with a .243 can drop in it's tracks. This incredible variablility causes us to search for an objective way to compare cartridge performance hence these tables. It's not practical to buy and test every cartridge out there.

Of course we are assuming perfect shot placement that shouldn't even be in the discussion. If you can't shoot then caliber choice matters little.

Bullet construction on deer-sized game is also of less importance. Deer aren't thick skinned nor particularly tough. Any 7mm or 308 bullet will probably perform fine on deer assuming you aren't trying to punch through a shoulder blade. But of course if you have a better bullet available to you, say a 165 gr. SST or MRXvs. a 165 gr. ballistic tip then you would want to go with the premium bullet in most cases.

I just use the best performing load regardless of bullet construction. Just about any current production bullet designed for big game is going to perform well if the shot is placed properly.

RE: Quit talking about the 7mm-08
 

Once again BBJ and I agree.

The 280 is a superior round to the 7-08. As I've stated before the 280 is my favorite weapon.

If anyone can tell the difference between 8 inches and 7 inches at 300 yards they are a better shot than me. I personally would much rather shoot a 140 gr. 7mm bullet than a 150 gr. 30 caliber due to thebetter sectional density. but like they say opinions are like butts....everyone has one....some stink worse than others....:D

RE: Quit talking about the 7mm-08
 

Yes I realize there is a 7mm-08 Light magnum and the .308 light magnum still outperforms it....by a slight margin.

More offerings does make the .308 better if even one of those offerings outperform the 7mm-08...which they do.

Yeah there is a whole 5 offerings in 7mm-08 from Federal vs. 17 offerings for .308. Options are good. I just personally use the best performing load available.

As for cost. It doesn't matter which load you choose the aggregate will be the .308 will probably always be cheaper.

I was just offering the 300 SAUM as an option for him. That particular load is awesome you have to admit. But, if I was so excited about it, I would have bought it insteaad of the .308. But I like having almost no recoil, I can stay in my scope with the .308 even with 180 gr. Federal high energy.

RE: Quit talking about the 7mm-08
 

the .280 is superior to almost everything. I don't see why you insist on comparing 140 gr. to 150 gr. bullets. I don't know why anyone would use a 30 cal 150 gr. for anything other than punching paper, at least not when you have an option of a 180 gr. that outperforms aeverythign else.

RE: Quit talking about the 7mm-08
 

So just which 308win light magnum load shoots flatter than the 139gr sst light magnumload for the 7mm-08?

The two 150gr light magnum loadslistedfor the 308win can't match it and neither can the 165gr light magnum load listed for the 308win.

If you are talking energy,the 308win starts out with slightly more,but the 7mm-08 catches and surpasses the 308win.

RE: Quit talking about the 7mm-08
 

I don't remember making a case for the .308 shooting flatter. But less than 1" is negligable.

the 165 grain SST .308 has more energy and there is less than 1" difference in trajectory. I've only been comparing out to 300 yards as that is about the max effective distance for those rounds on elk sized game IMO. Also I don't know that the average hunter shoots beyond 300 yards. I personally don't think so.

The load I use has over 1900 ft/lbs of retained energy at 300 yards and only drops 8.1.

I mean I don't know if you realize this but my point is: If you can get as good or better performance with a heavier bullet, plus have more bullet choices, and cheaper ammo why wouldn't you?

RE: Quit talking about the 7mm-08
 

Personaly I dont need a .30 caliber for deer hunting. I like the idea of a pretty hard hitting, flat shooting, mild recoiling gun. thats why I am thinking of the 7-08. 7 mag is better, 300 mag is even better, 338 is even better, when does it stop ? For me it would be somewhere aroun the 7-08 the .270 or .280, but I wana gun kids and women can shoot. I think the 708 is purrrrrrrrrrrfect. annnnnnd its the .243's bigger brudder Theres something about that .308 case, everything spawned from it has been awsome.

RE: Quit talking about the 7mm-08
 

Iuse a bullet heavy enough to do the job.Using a bullet of better construction is a better alternative to a heavier bullet.You get the same or more penetration,flatter trajectory,and less recoil.Since I reload,I have the maximum amount of suitable bullet choices and at the lowest possible price for the load.


Now you post

What happened to

The original topic was not the 7mm-08 vs the 308win as an elk load.You tried to make it that to try and make the 308win appear superior.

However it is very entertaining to watch you attempt to keep changing the rules in order to try and make your case.You sound like a saleman trying to twist data to make a sale.:D:D:D

RE: Quit talking about the 7mm-08
 

.308 doesn't recoil at all.

RE: Quit talking about the 7mm-08
 

Any premium bullet you want in almost any grain is available for the .308. .308 has more retained energy within 300 yards. It shoots just as flat. It recoils the same or less.

This makes it better suited as an elk cartridge.


Anything else is arguing semantics.

Personal attacks against me won't help you.

RE: Quit talking about the 7mm-08
 

Total B.S. we have already proven that the 7mm-08 shoots flatter.

So now the 308win is defying the laws of physics?Only in your fantasy world.:D:D:D

A quick calculation will prove that the 308 does in fact produce more recoil in the same weight gun.Just not in your fantasy world.:D:D:D

RE: Quit talking about the 7mm-08
 

"Flatter" as in 1 inch possibly 2 at 300 yards. I'd gladly trade that for the ability to have 300 more ft/lbs of energy.

Go ahead and post your caculations.

If it does kick less than at least it can do one thing better but I'm sure it's not that big of a difference. Felt recoil is extrememly objective anyway and can be alleviated by theshooter.Whereas a shootercan't make a given load perform better.

I can stay in my scope with the heaviest .308 load and I'm a sissie when it comes to recoil so that is plenty good enough for me and probalby anyone else women included.

RE: Quit talking about the 7mm-08
 

"An inch or two at 300 yards"isstill "flatter"."Almost as flat" is not "just as flat".

And by the way the difference between those two light magnun loads at 300 yards is not 300ft lbs.The 308 win -165gr load has 1898ft lbs at 300 yards,compared to the 7mm-08 -140gr load at 1833ftlbs.That amounts to 65ftlbs whichnot even remotely close to 300ftlbs.

And less recoil is still less recoil even if it is only afew ftlbs.In a light weight rifle with a smaller person,it can make a difference.

But then again in your fantasy world,with your magic gun

So I guess there is no cartridge thatcould possibly produce less recoil.:D:D:D

RE: Quit talking about the 7mm-08
 

The best Federal load for 7mm-08 is listed at 1654.

The best Federal load for .308 is listed at 1928.

Whoops that is only 274 ft/lbs more not 300 my bad I didn't have the number memorized.

RE: Quit talking about the 7mm-08
 

I consider anything within 2 inches not an appreciable difference. Certainly notany differencea hunter is going to have to compensate for there for they are "just as flat". Your grasping at straws.

RE: Quit talking about the 7mm-08
 

Go ahead and post your calculations.

Again, recoil can be mitigated by the shooter. You can't make a cartridge have more energy. If I can stay in my scope then it doesn't have noticable recoil. If your not being hit hard enough to lost sight picture then the recoil is not effecting you and it has no recoil that matters.

Again you're arguing semantics because it's all you have left.