in my (humble) opinion the smaller wssm's - 223 and 243 - are dead in the water. browning have just had a sale in australiawhere rifles in these calibres are down to half price, coz they can't shift them. do either of these rounds do anything that something else already can't? yes, they can burn barrels and throats quicker than the standard calibres! anything that dumps a large powder charge into a narrow bore has this problem. if the case is short and fat, the problem is made even worse.

the cases are hard to make feed cleanly, too.

and with the 223wssm in particular, it is still just a 22cal projectile, and therefore just avarmint cartridge, so you'd expect to fire a lot of rounds. i'd opt for the 22/250 or 220 swift, myself.

as for the larger wssm, that might be more practical, because you wouldn't be as likely to put hundreds of rounds through it. but i still think other, traditional rounds would be preferable.

Main advantage of the short mags is the size of rifle they come in. There aren't any great advanges in the actual performance of the cartridges, only their size. Its allows gun makers to make magnum rifles that are very compact. I looked long and hard at getting a 270, 7mm, or 300 WSM when I was buying a new rifle last season, but I ended up buying a regular 7mm Rem Mag instead because the ammo was quite a bit cheaper and I wasn't looking for a compact rifle. If I wanted to get a good, lightweight rifle for backpacking in after elk or backpacking back into the wilderness after sheep, but still wanted magnum power, I'd buy a short mag.

Ahhh the misinformed. The A-bolts(not sure on the Wins)have chrome lined barrels for theWssm's so they will last as long as a non-lined barrel for standard calibers. ST magazine had a huge article on this a few years backabout that misinformed rumor of these guns being barrel burners. Mostwere comparing the speeds and pressures in standard barrels not thelined barrels. After the test they noticed had no problems.

As far ashaving another caliber we dont need and not becoming popular, take a look at the 300Wsm. That is one of the most popular calibers out right now, almost every manufacturer has a gun for this caliber now. If 5 years ago you asked if we needed another casing size to shoot a .308 bullet the answer would have been no. From all the 300Wsm sales that would have been the wrong answer.

just the fact that browning felt they had to line the bores demonstrates that these cartridges are hard on equipment. and none of that changes the fact that browning simply couldn't sell rifles in these calibres - no one was buying them. and now we hear that USRAC (winchester) have gone down the tube. could it be because they have puttoo manyof their eggs in the wssm basket?two out of three winnies i see in the stores seem to be chambered in the small wssm's.

as for the 300wsm, you are quite right. but i was talking about the super short mags, not the sm's. there will always be a market for the big-calibre magnums - half the world's shootersseem to think you must have a magnum for medium-sized game on up ( which i don't believe, mind you). the super shorts are a different matter altogether - when i head out to bust some rabbits or foxes i'm not thinking "you beauty, i've got a magnum. now i'll fix em". the qualities your average varminter looks for (at least down here) are better represented by a developement like the .204 ruger than the 223wssm. highly accurate, neglible recoil, low muzzle blast, long barrel life etc. at the end of the day, the proof will be in the sales. and i don't see anyone else rushing to chamber for them.

I agree with most of what you are saying. The fact that Browning did line the barrel took care of the problem though. There was alot of early speculation on the wssm's about being barrel burners with proper proff when they came outa few years ago.

My point with the 300Wsm was it was a caliber introduced that was thought of as very uneeded like the 243Wssm but a few years later it really caught on. That doesnt guarantee that any of the Wssm will catch on though.

I dont think popularity of a round is the best way to judge it anyway. IMO the 280 is prob better then the 270 or 30-06 for deer but its not very popular compared to the other 2. ALso the 260 rem is awesome for deer and isnt very popular. Everyone has a 30-30 and they arent very good balistically, compared to alot of other calibers so sometimes popularity isnt the best measure anyway.

i certainly agree that popularity isn't the way to judge the quality of a cartridge. some excellent cartridges get killed off by ballistically inferior competitors. you're spot on about the 280. and i wonder if thereare better all-round medium cartridges than the 7mm mauser and 6.5 swedish? but how many companies chamber for them? bugger all, coz we've all gone magnum crazy. the 6mm rem is better than the .243 as well. but is it betterby enough margin to convince people to upgrade? no way. so the .243 will continue as a best seller, whilst the 6mm struggles along, kept alivelargely by remington's persistence.so (unfortunately) popularity does play a part in what is commercially viable to maintain.

Unless they can take market share from old favourites like the 22-250 and 243 ( and i don't think they'rea big enough improvement) to force other companies to chamber for them,i just feel the wssm'swill end uplike, say, the.222 magnum- ballistically impressive, but consigned to the pages of history.

i should clarify, too, that here in OZ, gun ownership is highly regulated and painfull to put up with. so we don't tend to rush out and buy the latest offering just because it's 100 fps quicker than something we allready have, or simply because we wantto ownevery calibre. there is too much red-tape and cost involved, so we a pretty careful in evaluating what is worth purchasing. perhaps these calibres will die here, butbe a roaring successin the states.

I think your last paragraph somed up how important you caliber choices are and if I were in your shoes prob wouldnt venture into the Wssm market either.
I already had a 6mm Remso in no way was this caliber one I needed to fill a void. It was more of a I dont have one of them so why not. That and I really like my 270Wsm so I figured it was time for another short mag. Pretty cool to have a gun with a 23" barrel and weighs about 6lbs thats still under 40"'s long. I will mainly use it for deer and coyote hunting so its far from overkill.

For the record your obvisously not as misinformed as I originally stated so I apologize for that.

no problem, champ. i'm enjoying debating and learning on this forum. afterall, we're all shooters, and ourfavourite activity is under threat, so we're actuallyall on the same team, despite differences of opinion.

i don't own a wssm,but i hope yours performs brilliantly.

you are obviously very knowledgeable, so i look forward to seeing you on the boards. cheers, mate