tack drivers&one hole groups
 

There appears to be many people that use the terms "tack driver" or "one hole groups" when describing their rifles accuracy.I find the terms humourous and have to laugh aloud; as how many of these people have actually driven tacks with their rifle,and do they really expect us tobelieve that all of their bullets pass through the same hole?Come on guys,when you describing accuracy,use real descriptions such as actual group sizes and yardages.

RE: tack drivers&one hole groups
 

I often wonder this also stubble. When you hear people that say they do it with a 710 and a 30 dollar scope and say they shoot one ragged hole I dont see it. I can keep it under an inch and thats with a rem sendero 300rumand a ziess so 1200 dollarsetup and I cant get it to shoot as good as most peoples 300 dollar guns boy did I get taken:DI have had a few 3 shot groupsunder .5 out of the sendero but most around .75 to 1.0 which ain't bad but its not driveing tacks imo.

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I once tried driving tacks but just messed up the tack witha 22.

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:D:D:D:D

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When I hear someone say that they have a tack driver, I assume that they are referring to a gun that shoots "very" accurate for them.(I never really thought they meant that they were shooting tacks) I have a savage 110 in 30-06 that I, at 150 yardscan acheive subMOA groups. However, I have never seenANYONE put a bullet in the same hole,and I probally wouldn't believe them if they said that they did. Even to get ragged 1 hole groups would bean almost impossible task. It is hard for me to believe someone, if they told me that they could put 5 shots in the same hole at 100 yards. ButI have put a whole box of 20 rounds out of the savage 110 inside a quarter at 156 yards. This was with a steady rest and a $200.00 scope. This is not exactly driving tacks or putting the bullets in the same hole, but I think that its pretty decent shooting. At least thats what the 15 or so other memberssaid when they seen me do it.:);)

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You no what is justas humourous...Is that people feel the need to brag about there $1200 setup's and downgrade a guy you buys a 710 and a $30 scope. IMO it's the shooter more than the price of the gun.And only the first shot counts

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i have noticed the same about some of the post on hear and the one hole grouping guns i ahve spent lots of hours at the sand bags wiht my rem 700 7mmag and best ive ever gotten was 2 shots were partily going trought same hole and thats it, if everyone could do 3 shot one ragged hole groups then wiht 300 dollar guns then there would be no need for custom accurized rifles trigger jobs and ext im twich im not saying those chaper guns are junk b/c i own a few chaeper guns savage H&R and i love those guns expiscaly b/c they ddint break the bank but never seen any of those guns out shhot remington 700's or buddy of mines weatherby and another thing is the ammo most of the one hole groups stuff ya see in books is a cooked up hand load not factorey ammo

RE: tack drivers&one hole groups
 

Price does not guarantee accuracy,but even the best shooter in the world isn't going to be able to shoot 1/2" groups with a 2" gun and loads.As for only the first shot counting,that is true,but the more accurate the gun,the higher the odds of the first shot hitting where it was intended.The same goes for scopes.That $30 scope is not as nearlyclear or bright as a quality scope which does influence the ability to place your shots,especially in poor light.As well that $30 scope is much more likely to not hold zero.

RE: tack drivers&one hole groups
 

I agree on the scope thing .....I tried the cheaper scopes and they don't hold up well at atleast not the ones i bought. I guess i was speaking more pesonally than anything on the gun . I have the cheaper Weatherby Vanguard and think the gun shoots great my friend has a high dollar Rem and I honestly don't see the difference we both hit what we are aiming at. But I could buy another Vanguard and still have less than he has in his Rem. It's all just opinion's anyway

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I don't think one needs to spend $2000 - $3000 on a rifle and more than $1000 on a scope to get superb accuracy.

Mostly those are folks who might have their first Cadillac, BMW or Mercedes and make sure everyone within earshot knows they're driving it. (But they don't mention the fact that it'sa Caddy CTS, Beemer 323 or Mercedes 230). Blow hards - real hard.

Money don't make the man and money certainly don't make amarksman!

I can't tell you how many times we've been out shooting some clay and I'm asked what that old thing is I'm shooting. When asked if they want to give er a ride thay are always amazed at how well they shoot that old Stevens 94 wrapped in camo tape. Most shoot it much better than their prizedbabies.

I always laugh at guys who show up with beautifully finished stocks on their guns and cry when they get a little scratch on it hunting. Same guys who seem to like to get a big old super heavy duty diesel 4X4,don't even have a trailer to pull with it andcan't possibly get it dirty, let alone muddy. File them in the "All Talkers" or "Hot Air" crowd. LOL

As to a gun being refered to as "tack driver", all that means is that you slightly push a thumbtack in - and finish it with one shot. Of course there's nothing left.

As to one hole groupings, don't blame me,I was brought up taught to not waste. Putting them all in the same hole saves paper and trees.

RE: tack drivers&one hole groups
 

and to add to everybody's comments......how about repeatability? I mean Im sure there are some lucky SOB's out there that have shot a "ragged hole" with his gun, question is for it to be labeled as a tack driver it has to be able to do it time after time.......one ragged hole does not a tack driver make!!! Heck I am tickled to death if I get a gun to shoot 5 or 6 groups that measure around an inch. My 300rum ONE TIME shot a .375" group, I do not say my gun is a 3/8" shooter.....it averages .75" so that is what I say it is.

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What the f does a high dollar scope help shooting targets? It either holds it zero or it doesnt. If it does, then I see no advantage except to make somebody feel a little more "smug" about having hi dollar equipment...whether they can hit the side of a house with it or not. The shooter is what matters.....the price of his gun, scope or the pickup he drove to the range means absolutely nothing. I killed over 40 deer with a Tasco world class 2x7 on a rem 700 adl synthetic .270( you know? the one with the "dime store" stock?) that was zeroedin 1996 and neveradjusted again until taken off in 2005. Lets take for example...if a guy buys a Stevens 200 for $275 and puts a $40 Bushnell or Tasco on it and shoots 1 inch groups. Another guy buys a Sako or Kimber for $1000 and pays $1200 for a scope and shoots .95 inch groups. Now just who here is better off with the exception of resale value?

Dont flame me...just my opinion :D

Back to the original subject I always used the term tack driver for a really accurate gun.

RE: tack drivers&one hole groups
 

We used to sight in our 22 rifles on thumb tacks in the wind break by the barn. To me tack driver means a rifle that shoots maybe 1/2 inch groups or a gun that shoots better than the average man can hold it even with sand bags. The best group ever shot in history was with a 222 and was five shot throug one hole. However the hole was enlarged to slightly more than the size of one 224 diamer bullet so it was not confirmed as an official one hole group..

As far as scopes go, I have seen cheap scopes shoot just as good as high dollar scopes as long as they last. The best group I have ever shot ( 5 shot), was just under 3/8 inch with a 6.5x55 Swedish mauser with 140 grain Hornady SP's and was with a straight power 4X Tasco World Class scope which is still on the rifle twenty years later. My 700 ADL Synthetic 270will shoot three shots groups under half inch with Federal Fusion 130 grains. It has a Leupold 3x9 VX-l. Which is the most money I will spend on optics. I call that rifle a tack driver because I know it would do even better if I could do it. Also because it does it every time I try it. I bought a case of that lot number of Federal Fusions. A lot of critters are not going to like that.;). Good Post SJ

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But due to differentstandards of accuracy from different people,even that statement means very little.To some people 1-1/2" groups at 100 yards is really accurate,while other shooters don't call a gun really accurate until the groups approach 1/2" or even less.The same is true when someone claims to have killed a huge buck and then it turns out to score only 130b&c.To the person that killed it,the buck may be huge,yet to many hunters itwould not be worth wasting a tag on.

RE: tack drivers&one hole groups
 

I would call a rifle that always shoots under one inch a tack driver. I would consider a shooter who can do it every time a very good shot. Some days my groups are pretty good. Some days no matter what I do, I can't get in a steady position. Thats just my standard. As long as the gun does not recoil much, my wife can shoot better groups every time out than I can. If a rifle kicks her hard once, she is done with it.She is smarter than many and does not have to be macho.:D

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You are going to miss a fair number of tacks with a 1" gun,unless of course it usesvery large diameter bullets.

RE: tack drivers&one hole groups
 

stubblejumper, what do you consider good groups?

90 % of people at the rod and gun club thatI attend,WISH that they could shoot sub MOA groups. Many claim to, but when I see them shoot, they are lucky to even keep it inside 4 or 5 inches at 100 yards. I can honestly say that most of the time at 125 yards, I can shoot my shotgun with winchester super x (for smoothbore) more accurately than almost all of these men can with their rifles.(and alot of these guys have more expensive guns than I do) I agree that marksmenship is a dying skill. I personally don't own any rifles that cost more than $1100.00, but I really feel that I don't need to. To me a 130 class whitetail is large and I wouldn't pass him up. And I also think putting 20 rounds inside a quarter at 156 yards is good too...I never measured a quarter...its probally bigger than an inch... so it might not be subMOA,but its still good in my book.

When you buy a jarret rifle, he garantees a rifle that will hit tennis balls consistantly at 200 yds. or else it is thrown away. His rifles are very expensive. Alot more than my savage 110. I think that I can (consistantly) hit a tennis ball at 200 yards if I can consistantly hit a quarter at 156 yds.

If these custom rifles can help someone shoot better, then let them buy it if they have the money. But honestly, sub MOA is hard to accomplish with any rifle, if the man or woman behind it isnt a sub MOA shooter.;)

RE: tack drivers&one hole groups
 

Stubble. Thats why I said that that was my opinion. I always figurethatmost rifles will shoot better off the bench than I can shoot them.. If a rifle shoots under one inch for me, it will almost always do better for a better target shooter. However if we are must be technically correct, I have never seen a rifle that would hit tack every time at 100 yards or a shooter who could it. Therefore I will stay out of further discussion on this thread.

RE: tack drivers&one hole groups
 

I never posted that a person needs to fire tiny groups with his hunting rifle,rather that the terms"one hole group" and "tack driver" really were humorous to me because they did not really describe a rifles accuracy potential.To accomplish that,one needs to know the average group size that a rifle will shoot at a given distance.
As for my own rifles,if they are to remain my rifles for long,they must be capable of consistant sub moa groups at 100 yards.I currently hunt with four rifles two of which I consider 1/2" rifles and the other two 5/8" rifles.I often shoot much smaller groups,but if I had to give a description of the group size that I could expect to shoot on a given day,those would be the sizes that I would give.The groups below were fired one morning with one of my 5/8" rifles.They are much smaller than 5/8" but I do not expect to match these groups on any given day.

http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d128/stubblejumper11/300ultramaggroups.jpg

As for 130 class whitetails,they are far too common in my hunting area to consider wasting a tag on.

RE: tack drivers&one hole groups
 

Good shooting stubblethats very impressive is that with your 300rum.The top targets the definition of a tack driver imo

On another note I did not mean to offend anyone about how much you spent on you gun. I have seen many cheaper guns shoot very good like the savage, rem 700's, vangaurds, but never have I seen a 710 shoot very good so i used thats why I used it in my statement I shot one at the range and couldnt keep it under 2" maybe it was a lemon but I've seen a few and none shot good. They are plenty accurate for deer hunting but not my cup of tea. I will spend a little more to get a little more thats the way I am. sorry if anyones offended by me for me picking on the 710 if it works for you use it. I dont currently own a rifle that I could hit a tack with every time but I bet I could scare the hell out of it if I dont hit it. I wont keep a gun that wont shoot sub 1'' groups. I hope my new project-X gun will keep'em under 0.5. I have shot enough deer to wait for the big boys 140plus.

RE: tack drivers&one hole groups
 

That was with one of my 300ultramags.I made some money off a fellow with a 300wsm that morning after he bragged how accurate it was compared to the other 300 magnums.:D
Personally,I have no intention on pulling the trigger on a whitetail unless it is in the 160 class.

RE: tack drivers&one hole groups
 

I am thinking we are all suffering withdrawl from the loss of deer hunting right now and we must have wayyyyy too much time on our hands to be entertaining each other with all this educational intercourse. Of course this is just my impression....much like the terms that got this whole thing out of control and snowballing in the first place...hmmmmm.

RE: tack drivers&one hole groups
 

Stubble I gotta ask....how many of those 160's do you get and if the answer is very many do you need a neighbor? :DWe have some 160+ deer in this area but thiscounty is one of 4 bow-only countiesin the state.


A very true statement would be that the only thing holding back 98% of the rifles in the world are 98% of the shooters :D

RE: tack drivers&one hole groups
 

dude.....this is an online message board about hunting and its not hunting season, what do you expect??? All of us to sit around and compliment each other?? Heck no we're guys.....EVERYTHING is turned into a pissing match!!! :D

RE: tack drivers&one hole groups
 

yeah stubble, send some of those extra 160 class whitetails to new york please...i promise i wont pass them up;):D:D:D

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Say, that has pick-up line potential. Can I use that?[8D]

RE: tack drivers&one hole groups
 

Weusually see two or three160 class deer in a season,with the occaisional monster.I do see several 140 to 150 class bucks every season and 120 and 130 class bucks are very common.The thing about hunting open fields is that many deer are seen,but are simply too far to get an opportunity to kill.

RE: tack drivers&one hole groups
 

Not sure I ever had one hole, close together, maybe two overlapping but not one hole! [8D]And tack driver, hum, now that sounds like a good competition, but it brings up one question, who or what is going to hold the tack at the target so you can drive it in? :D

RE: tack drivers&one hole groups
 

Actually I find it very easy to shoot 1 hole groups, if you want to know the secret then I'll tell you. On that 2 and 3rd shot, you just gotta aim about a foot or two lower than on the first shot ;)

And for the sake of being able to argue some more, technically if you cut holes from your first shot it is now one big hole, making it a one hole group!!!!!:eek:

RE: tack drivers&one hole groups
 

Hum, sounds like a good line to me! Bet it just might work.....'hey how would you like to engage in some 'educational intercourse'.......kapow! :D[8D]

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That's what I thought. I'm looking for a lady that wants to do dirty things to a very sophisticated man.[8D]

RE: tack drivers&one hole groups
 

I tried to see if my pellet gun was a tack driver in the basement today. Well actually I used a screw I dunno where my dad's nails are. Anyways...it didn't work, just threw the screw at me really fast.:(

RE: tack drivers&one hole groups
 

Guns can hit tacs at 100 yards quite regularly if you got the right combinations. Top grade barrel, trigger 2o/z, bedded, scopewith 1/4" dot and A/O my brother has a 223 Rem 700 action with a 26" Hart Premium stainless andit is a true constant -.250 gun and he can hit tacks with it.
I had a Rem 700 made up by Hart Barrels added, jewell, tubbs pin it will do it but its not fun to shoot 7mmwsm lots of recoil
If you want to see what a 1000yard gun can do take a look;
www.6mmbr.com/gunweek050.htmlthis group is amazing at 1000 yards

RE: tack drivers&one hole groups
 

The formula is easy for above average shooting.
A good trigger job , I like 3 1/2 -4lbs on a big game rifle and go to 2 1/2 -3 on a varmit rifle. Good confortable bench where one can sit naturally without having to be a contortionest to nestle into one's rifle. Good sandbags for front and rear of gunstock. Precision site in 100 yard targets , you know those diamonds so crosshairs can be held with the expectation to be in the same place for every shot. Good ammo loaded with a minimum variance in FPS.
At this point a little talent of the shooter's part helps. Gently apply pressure to trigger and don't forget the follow thru. Yes , there is a follow thru even in shooting a rifle.
I've got a few rifle that give one hole ragged groups when I do my part. Just ask George Gieges gunsmith at Dunkleburgers in Stroudsburg Pa. if Kevin has some one hole rifles. Other references on request if needed.

RE: tack drivers&one hole groups
 

I can see by these responses that you guys are really into reloading and grouping..come on over to the Groundhog match which is held at the Mifflin Co. sportsmens club located near Lewistown, PA..almost dead center in the state..this match has been put together by like minded individual just for the purposes you've been talking about..making rifles shoot as good as they can...this is a fun match and an awesome time..you'll see everything that is made on the planet and usually 75 or so guys show up..this is exactly what you've been looking for..you need not worry about sighting in before becasue we use sighter targets at each distance and then your shots for score...all of the shooters are shooter friendly and you see more and hear more in one day about long range shooting than in a life time.. first match is MARCH 18th at 9:00 am...it's not that far from you.. http://www.mifflncosportsmens.com Stop by..you'll love it !!

RE: tack drivers&one hole groups
 

Would we get to shoot at Puxataney Phil. I have plenty of guns that group good enough from him.

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Damn little nazi ground hog always making the winters longer I got some good little 223 medicine for him.

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223?? The heck with that...use the 375 and really put him under hehehehe.:D

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It's funny to read all the arguments people have on a useless subject.:D

RE: tack drivers&one hole groups
 

First off, this is a stupid post.

Just so you know, "tack driver" is a figure of speech. Live with it.