Jeff Ovington

WOW MOSSY...
MAYBE YA NEED TO GROW THOSE DEER BIGGER
I was wondering the same thing as Big Country...
WHY DIDN'T YOU HELP THEM OUT.....

Your absolutely right Mossy..PEOPLE who take long range shotsand don't know what they are doing, is unethical,and it does give hunters a bad rep....
I KNOW CAUSE I HEAR IT ALL THE TIME...

I don't hide the fact that I practice these shots,on targets and
have the confidence in doing it in the field but everything has to be right......
I've done it twice and connected both times, but that is out about 50 times that I've passed up on a shooting attempt (not even raising my gun), because it wasn't doable weather it behunting condidtions terrain ortype of game (ELK,MOOSE these I never attempt) but sheep/goat I have....People think that just because you practice long range shots you'll shoot at anything any time...Some people do.. The ones that practice don't,They hold off until its perfect...

Sorry FOR HIJACKING YOUR POST MOSSY....

But we all know,every shooterhas just as much responsibility
knowing where they shoot at their comfort shooting range,(from all stories I've read on this forum and any other) the 75yrd to 200yrd has produced alot more wounded game and missed opportunitiesthan what I read at longer distances....
At this range not only are you dealing with the fact that you just missed an animal,But most people havn't clued that bullet still traveling..
another possible400 yrds Potentially killing any living thing in its path till it lands..

Thats why I think its absolutely critical that people shoot
out to 400yrds - 500yrds when practicing..You don't have to shoot game at this range,but at least you know were your bullets end up.....

Your right not hunting with them Mossy,cause they'd have probably would have missed at 50yrds away anyhow and killed you 300 yrds away.....

Than who'd I'd getto help me out.....

Briman

I'd be suprised if the average hunter could hit a deer in the vitals at 200 yards more often than not. Working at hunter sight in clinics over the years, I get pretty darn excited when I see a guy shoot 3 shots into less than 2" at 100yardseven using a big pile of sandbags, a solid bench, and telescopic sights. Most of whom I see fire 1 shot, I mark it on the target, fire another shot, it goes 6" away from the first, I start thinking "ok, so he may have had a little oil in the barrel from cleaning it last time" (of course I just made the mistaken assumption that the guy ever cleaned his rifle at all, fires a third shot, which goes 3-4" from the second shot. The guy then asks me on where I should adjust his scope to. I usually sigh a little, and say, lets let it cool off for 5 minutes, in which time I coach him a little. He starts shooting again, by now he's starting to affected by recoil, (This is even worse when you have a novice who wants to buy shooting range by bringing his newly purchased 300 magnum from Walmart) but might be taking his time with his shots and is now shooting 4" groups that are almost workable for adjusting the scope. Invariably I'm asked "I'll be shooting across a picked cornfield, how high should it be sighted in at 100 yards to take shots out to 400?"

If the above example isn't discouraging enough especially after seeing it happen over and over and over again, I'm reminded by the fact that these guys at least attempted to sight in their rifle before deer season, and if not anything else, fire it a few times, I personally know a lot more hunters who never fire their rifles before the season let alone sight them in.

Another interesting bit- women who show up at these events are ALWAYS in the top 1% of the group as far as shooting ability goes, even the teenage girls seem to very well- they probably most likely come from families that have a strong firearms background. I'm not sure why this is, but my best guess is that the few women that hunt take it very seriously and are probably avid shooters besides, and aren't going to hunting camp to drink booze, play poker, and visit strip joints.

Alsatian

I generally feel comfortable shooting at 200 yards; I feel a little nervous shooting at 300 yards -- on deer/pronghorn size game. I sight in my rifles at the range and practice at the range. Maybe I shoot 100 rounds a year total, through several rifles including .30-06, .243, and .25-06. When I shoot at game in the field I prefer to use the most stable position available to me, which is generally with my elbows supported on each knee. If I shoot offhand, it had better be less than 100 yards because my groups are about 5" offhand at 100 yards. I try to live within my limitations when I hunt.

Many other hunters, I believe, do not understand where their limits are. They don't sight their rifles in so they have no idea where their aimpoints really are when they go to the field. They do not shoot enough to know how much variation there is in their own shooting -- how wide their groups are in different shooting positions. They don't understand that different bullet weights and even different loads from different manufacturers result in shifted aim points. I know a hunter who prepared for the rifle deer season in Oklahoma by shooting 6 shots. I would guess he did not go to a rifle range but shot on his deer lease at an unknown distance at a rock or some other identifiable target. Who knows what field position he used. He experienced several misses or less than fatal shots during the hunt and was concerned his scope sighting "might be off," but did hit a doe standing broadsidein the belly shooting off-hand at about 30 yards and concluded from this experience that his rifle was "on target" -- I guess this means he deliberately shot 10 inches aft of where most people prefer to shoot. This example hunter has no idea what his shooting limitations are and what variables are involved in shooting (cartridge loads, positions, etc.)

That is just the way it is. I hear the voice of truth coming from the experienced guide who spoke above. I think he may even be seeing the better run of hunters when he says they can consistently take deer at 200 yards. Maybe a hunter who is investing in a guided hunt takes a little more trouble than the guy who happens to know someone whose property he can hunt on for free and pays $16 for a resident deer tag?

An interesting consequence of my limited shooting ability (shouldn't take shots past 300 yards, maybe somewhat less) is that for me there really is no advantage to magnum cartridges -- the good ol' .30-06 is probably flat enough for my shooting. And I would guess that 90% of hunters have just as limited shooting ability as me, so what is all the hoopla about magnums and the crappy performance of the .30-06 and how much better the Gazzumi x83-07 mm Super gazimbo cartridge is? This doesn't mean I disparage these high performance cartridges, I'm just suggesting most people -- myself included -- can't shoot well enough to obtain their benefits.

statjunk

I just want to add that I would really like to get more experience shooting at longer distances and shooting off hand. However, the shooting ranges are usually 100 yards max and they rarely let you shoot off hand. They also are mostly load one, shoot one too!

Tom

Rammer

I have a few buddies that I consider to be "average" hunters. By this I mean, they don't know how to sight in their deer rifles, and only shoot their rifles at targets a few times a year, and they have me sight them in for them. These guys can not shoot a deer past 150 yards with a solid rest, jerk the triggers, etc. These fellas are all excellent shots with shotguns, but they just don't have the self control or discipline to be a long range shooter. About 2 years ago, one of these buddies approached me, and made it clear that he wanted to be as good of a shot as me at longer distances, and he was asking for help. I sent him to the gun shop when he had the funds available, had him pick up a Ruger 10/22 (my favorite 22) and a good scope. We grabbed a few bricks of ammo, I taught him how to zero it in, and told him to start practicing. That fall when it came time to sight in his deer rifle, he did it himself and shot 3 shots into 1" at 100 yards. He was grinning ear to ear. I took him out deer hunting one evening after he got off work, and he had a doe tag and a buck tag. A doe stepped out of some willows at 289 yards, I told him to practice all we had worked on in the off season, he squeezed the trigger, and the doe fell dead in her tracks.

So I guess what I'm saying, if you want to get good at longer ranges, start small and work your way up. Now, this buddy and I shoot all the time (we loaded 750rds of 243 ammo up a few weeks ago), and we set 2 Liter, 1 Liter, 20 ounce, gallon, etc jugs at 300 yards and we bust them all in 1 shot shooting from the prone position using our backpacks as a rest.

JLmoore1956

Yes that is some non shooting and I can only guess, but I am thinking, they get up, go out and start shooting away, never take it to the range, never go shoot 300 yards and they put it away if they get a deer until next year!

renfrowridge

I wont say how far I shoot and what groups I get the last time I did that I got rip by the guys here but you are all right about the hunters. When I was in sniper school and yes it has been a few years ago 62% of the class fail because they could not hit a target at 1000 yards and 40% fail to hit the target at 500 yards I burn at least 1000 round a year thru my gun so I know what it can do. I just wish it was a law that you had to prove you could hit a target but that wont happen.

JLmoore1956

renfro, I agree should be law to test each year! And i have never had to shot farther than 200, and i know i can, just have not had the space to do it, but before I would even think of shooting even 200, i would have to be on the range and put about 40-50 rounds, more if that is what it took to make sure I could make the killing shot at that range, if I did not think i could, i wouldn't. Have been told many times to include Germany that I probably could have shot more, but then again, I was behind the rifle, and you know what, one shot one kill as you say! Never had to use a second one!

renfrowridge

First I want to thank you jlmoore for being over there keep you're head down and give them hell may all you bullets fly straight and true and hit there mark. you seem to know what I am talking about. peace bro and be safe.

chuck

JLmoore1956

yes, i read once, that it was better to put 18 out of 20 rounds through a rifle before hunting, then 2 throough and take 18 to the woods. I don't think there is a time I havent gone to the range before i went hunting the first time, and sometimes several times, got use to in Germany of goin once a month even during season, and if it was a big hunt or i dropped the rifle, then I would be at the range and firing at a minimum 5 rounds to verify zero. I might be able to shoot a 1000 yards, but until i do, aint gonna be shootin that far!