223, 243 & 25 WSSM cartridges
10-26-2005, 04:16 PM
#11
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 23
RE: 223, 243 & 25 WSSM cartridges
A .243 is NOT a .243 WSSM. As far as new stuff, I jumped on the .17 HMR bandwagon and own two .204s, howzat for "new"?. What I object to, are the companies that bring out this crap, stopping production of the "normal" stuff, in order to force us to buy something that has very dubious improvements, like Winchester has done last year. NO Model 70 Sporters in .270 Winchester? just to sell .270 WSMs? If it were that much better than the old stuff, why wouldn't it sell on it's own merits? Put 'em side by side, and let the market decide.
10-27-2005, 12:55 PM
#12
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: USA
Posts: 494
RE: 223, 243 & 25 WSSM cartridges
ORIGINAL: UThunter
the difference between short and long actions is not BS. If someone wants a shorter action and consequently usually lighter gun and supposedly more accurate due to stiffer action, then why not? those that are soooo opposed to new cartridges and guns are usually just mad cause they can't afford to buy a new gun. theres nothing wrong with a big selection of guns and ammo so everyone gets exactly what they want. if people stopped developing new guns, then we would still be shooting flintlocks...and they only have one shot and NO bolt throw so no problem right? only need one shot
the difference between short and long actions is not BS. If someone wants a shorter action and consequently usually lighter gun and supposedly more accurate due to stiffer action, then why not? those that are soooo opposed to new cartridges and guns are usually just mad cause they can't afford to buy a new gun. theres nothing wrong with a big selection of guns and ammo so everyone gets exactly what they want. if people stopped developing new guns, then we would still be shooting flintlocks...and they only have one shot and NO bolt throw so no problem right? only need one shot
10-27-2005, 01:40 PM
#13
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Reinholds, Pennsylvania
Posts: 163
RE: 223, 243 & 25 WSSM cartridges
48th guns....I said that the .243 would be around ..but the .243 WSSM would not however..you got things mixed up/...actually..or i missed someone else say it...but i deffinently did not
10-27-2005, 11:22 PM
#14
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location:
Posts: 306
RE: 223, 243 & 25 WSSM cartridges
ORIGINAL: zekeskar
Believe me, I don't disagree that there are differences that people might appreciate between the various cartridges, and I could care less if someone enjoys the very subtle differences and buys the gun that they want. Believe me again, I have hobbies with gear that some would say is redundant, but I like because of subtle differences (and have just because I can afford it!) But to say people are opposed to new cartridges just because they can't afford them is just arrogant BS. Maybe we don't like them because _for us_ they don't represent any practical, in the field (or maybe even at the range) difference from what we already have, or what has been available for decades already. I could afford several more rifles and shotguns, but only own the ones that actually deliver what I need. Each gun I own has one or more very acceptable alternatives, but the alternatives aren't different in any meaningful way, and I don't CHOOSE to spend my money that way.
ORIGINAL: UThunter
the difference between short and long actions is not BS. If someone wants a shorter action and consequently usually lighter gun and supposedly more accurate due to stiffer action, then why not? those that are soooo opposed to new cartridges and guns are usually just mad cause they can't afford to buy a new gun. theres nothing wrong with a big selection of guns and ammo so everyone gets exactly what they want. if people stopped developing new guns, then we would still be shooting flintlocks...and they only have one shot and NO bolt throw so no problem right? only need one shot
the difference between short and long actions is not BS. If someone wants a shorter action and consequently usually lighter gun and supposedly more accurate due to stiffer action, then why not? those that are soooo opposed to new cartridges and guns are usually just mad cause they can't afford to buy a new gun. theres nothing wrong with a big selection of guns and ammo so everyone gets exactly what they want. if people stopped developing new guns, then we would still be shooting flintlocks...and they only have one shot and NO bolt throw so no problem right? only need one shot
10-28-2005, 07:21 PM
#15
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 23
RE: 223, 243 & 25 WSSM cartridges
Damned right I knocked them. The .25 is the only WSSM that makes any sense at all, and the feeding geometry is all wrong to make them work smoothly. My main experience with them is with a Stealth II a buddy of mine bought in .223 WSSM. Since day one, it's been a POS. No groups under 5" when brand new, and now it won't even hit paper at 100 yards, the owner is scrupulous about keeping it clean, and careful with his handloads, too, but even factory ammo is horrible in the thing. He's swapped scopes, checked mounts, checked the crown, all the normal things you do when a rifle won't shoot, it's a POS. I can, and do, own several rifles, some bought just this year. I tend to pick practical, well designed cartridges that common sense and good taste dictate work well. The WSSMs don't and won't qualify, ever.
10-28-2005, 07:27 PM
#16
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 23
RE: 223, 243 & 25 WSSM cartridges
As far as elasticity, etc, in long actions, do you think any deer on four hooves can tell the difference between getting hit with a long action cartridge or a short one? You're from Utah, right? Work for Winchester,do ya? Get real.
10-29-2005, 01:26 AM
#17
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location:
Posts: 306
RE: 223, 243 & 25 WSSM cartridges
Short and long actions and their size and weight differences have nothing to do with what's being shot. It is a user preference for bolt throw, weight, and accuracy. YOu can be ignorant all day long, but do it somewhere else, and stop wasting our time with your opinions you call facts.
10-29-2005, 04:37 AM
#18
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 23
RE: 223, 243 & 25 WSSM cartridges
Still haven't learned how to read between the lines of what you've seen in the "grocery store gun magazines" have you? Check out the problems endemic to all the WSSMs in The Varmint Hunter Magazine. The gunwriter is trying like hell to make a silk purse out of a sow's ear, but anyone with an eye towards truth can read it. For free rifles, they'll sell their souls, and sucker unsuspecting rubes. As a practical matter, in any hunting rifle, action length just doesn't matter. We're not talking benchrest here, this is a hunting board, right? Your reality check has bounced again.
10-30-2005, 12:13 AM
#19
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location:
Posts: 306
RE: 223, 243 & 25 WSSM cartridges
YOu're a joke, hunting rifles are where the shorter actions shine, allowing a shorter rifle because of the action length and barrel length. These shorter cartridges can better utilize a shorter barrel. Both of those add up to significant weight loss.