I have tried just about all the cleaners on the market or copper cutters.

I see some here love shooters choice, but I would have to work for hours to get out the copper from RUM's with shooters choice. Its just so weak a copper cutter. I put hopps benchrest in this catagory too.

So I turn to sweets or CR10. CR10 if not tended too can really screw up a barrel. It can cause surface rust in 10 min. Ok, now sweets don't seem near as bad. They say (and they say alot) that the rust that occures is the water in the CR10, not the ammonia, the ammonia only speeds up the hydroscopic reaction? I would love to know for sure.

Ok, so I use wipe out. Seem to have good results, can't say I ever seen surface rust. Even though I am shocked after sitting two days with several applications. But not sure if it actually cleans out all the copper. I used wipeout for a few years now. And thought my barrel was clean, but saw copper strips at the top one inch of the barrel. So I bore scoped and still some copper.But my patches were clean. Only thing I used to get that copper strips out was JB's bore bright or the real original. But JB's scares me. It is abrasive.

So looking for the next latest greatest. Montana Extreme. What do you guys thing? Copper Melt, butches? Some say montana has no water in it. So its aggresive like CR10 but won't surface rust your barrels in minutes. Need some educated opinions.

There is a reason why am thinking about this. I just had a gun bore scoped, and it had small pits in it. It only has 700 rounds thru it. I may be my well used dewey rod. But I used wipeout for two years on this gun. And always cleaned it until there was only faint blue with sweets. Hopeing there wasn't a reaction between the sweets and wipeout. I always put 4 patches thrubefore changing cleaners. Sometimes used brake cleaner between solvents. I have dozens of guns, and never had this problem particularly.

There was a period where I didn't clean so aggresively. I would use shooters choice only, and left most of the copper in it. Would only spend 15 min on the barrel max. I then decided to decopper and thats where I had to go to the real heavy duty JB's. And as everyone knows JBs leaves that thick black residue and can be hard to remove all the way. I know with medocre cleaning you can end up with layer of hardened carbon and copper. And the carbon has by products that can pit.

Just trying to figure out the mystery so it doesn't happen again. Still shoots ok. Just fouls more.

maybe it's just me but i think you are going overboard on your cleaning. how do you determine when it's time to clean the barrel. most guns seem to shoot a little better with a slightly fouled barrel. i let the gun tell me when time to clean. if it is shooting good just give a normal cleaning thats all it needs.

Bigcountry - a lot of this stuff has to do with how smooth the barrel was to begin with. But there is no set procedure that is universal for all guns. If I can get away with cleaning a barrel with just Shooter's Choice, then that's what I'll use. If I have to use Sweet's or CR-10, then so be it. Some guns are prone to hard powder fouling. Some aren't. Also, don't be too afraid of JB paste (or USP Bore Paste) - usually 20 or 30 strokes is usually all it takes.

The only thing that is universal, though, is that you have to get the barrel completely clean at the end of the season before storage. Otherwise, pitting is going to eventually get started in there.

Haven't used Montana Extreme. Let us know how it works out for you.

Thanks Roskoe. With this gun in particular, there is no end of season. Its pretty well shot almost every other week. Or it was.

I only have 2 guns I can get away with just shooters choice. And they are lower velocity rounds like 7mm08 and 308, and one low powered 270. The rest requires alot of cleaning. But they are kicking well over 3000fps with greater than 160gr bullets. So lots of bearing surface, and lots speed.

It might have been that period that I didn't clean very aggresively and let layers of copper and carbon buildup happen. I shouldn't have listened to John Barshness. Maybe it wasn't. But sure don't want it to happen again.

I might give Montana a try. I

I think it is a direct result of Todays High Grade Steels that are being used.
I think that these solvents may react or (may not react at all )with certain compents that these companies add to their steel.....
Thus resulting in surface rust or a poor cleaning job that results in more time being spent cleaning instead of shooting....
I have an older gun made in the sixties that has never given me problems with shooting, cleaning etc.aHusqvarna 30-06..
Nope, That Husky doesn't weather the harsh conditions of the cold,not by a long shot when one compares it to Stainless or something else that is being used .
My Dad owns a much newer Browning 30-06 and there is considedable more time spent cleaning the gun..And it is much more finicky to the
type of solvents that can be applied..
Maybe this is your calling. BC..Invent a Solvent and Market itTomorrows Solvent for Todays Guns, Faster Cal.'s and High Grade Steel..

I agree. In fact, a day or two before I go hunting, I go to the range and foul my barrel to prepare it. I never store my rifles. I shoot them all at least once a month with a normal cleaning afterward. When I shoot at the range, I don't even look where the first 4 or 5 rounds go. After I foul the barrel, then I mark my shots. Maybe I'm wrong, but isn't there such a thing as over cleaning?

Ok, guys somewhere or another I miscommunicated what I was saying or asking. This is probably the only gun that I ever was inconsistent on.All the rest are totally cleaned every time.I respectfully disagree about overcleaning. Copper by itself has a chemical reaction, that turns green with air I believe, thats bad. Your gun may shoot fouled, and so does mine, but I don't believe its ever a good idea to leave the copper in the barrel for extended period. Overcleaning does not pit a barrel, sorry. It can scratch a barrel, it can put undue wear on a barrel, but not pit a barrel.

My question for guys who work in the gun field is, do you believe that either the copper breaking down (chemical reaction with air), or the carbon by products that I left in the barrel letting them layer over each other did the pitting? Or wipe out thinking I got out all the copper do the pitting? Or maybe didn't get out all the JB's on a session? Changing Solvents? Looking for someone who might have seen this.

For the reason that sweets and CR10 has water in it, I was thinking of chanign over to Montana Xtreme creme. Anyone ever try it.

The copper if anything, will protect your barrel if left in, as long as it is still red in color. If there is moisture or corossive chemicals in the barrel, the copper will act as a sacrificial anode and corrode before the steel will. As long as you get it out before it turns green you'd be ok.

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