Ok, I guess we missed the point on that one. His daughters recoil sensitivity was discussed earlier and if you do agree we need to teach anatomy and ballistics then why are you suggesting she be armed witht he bare minimum to kill the animal? I'm sure per chance you could kill plenty of white tail with small caliber rounds but is it appropriate? No. We have already discussed this topic in length before. If you teach a young person how to shoot the right way the first time then there will not be all of the common issues that arise such as heavy recoil due to a poor stance, posture, grip or scope eye or worse using an under powered round that wounds the animal and your stuck tracking it for hours, if you even find it at that. I feel sorry for any kid who is set up in this fashion for a big disappointment, going hunting with a pop gun only to find out that it more than likely won't do the job for the first time hunter, what a shame. And if you don't think you owe it to the game in your state then keep practicing what you preach and watch your numbers drop. Hunting is full circle, go in and harvest what you need cleanly and do your best to make sure there's more for next year and many years to come.

cw we are talking about shooting a deer here not an elk. the .223 is more than enough to down a whitetail at 100 yards. i don't think you have had much or anytime with a .223 or you would think differant. a soft point .223 will mushroom out to somewhere around .35 in diameter which is a very appropriate wound channel.

She can handle a .243. It would be my choice over the .223.

Well once again RR you've replied to a post making no sense whatsoever. At what point during this thread did I ever recommend a caliber type for kids to shoot? It most certainly wasn't a .300 win. I told you that it was a must to equip them witht the proper hunting tools in order to avoid poor hunting practices but based on your last post,
,I can can certainly see where you're coming from.

And "missed another" who's talking about shooting elk?

I believe in starting new shooters out with manageable calibers, but in all fairness and respect for the game, they need to hunt with something that is adequate for the job! Will the .22's kill deer? Yes.
Are they good deer calibers? NO! Because there is little to no margin for error with the .22's!
And when I'm talking about "margin for error," thats with a skilled shooter/hunter! Not with newbies!
Starting with the.243/6MM there are calibers that have very little recoil and enough power to get the job done! Add to these calibers more weight, and/or brakes and recoil pads, new shooters should be able to manage recoilwith no problems!
Sorry, but if someone cannot handle a hunting caliber, they shouldn't be hunting! It's not fair to them or the deer!
Missed Another, perhaps this is how you came by your name! A shot that is anything less than perfect with the .22's, will leave little, to no evidence of a hit! So while people shrug it off as amiss, another good game animal becomes buzzard bait! And while there is really no waste in nature, the animal suffers needlessly!
Use a hunting caliber for hunting!

I'm with ridge runer. A .223 is plenty on whitetail. Specially if you only take broadside shots through the vitals. A deer WILL NOT survive that shot, he will not go far.
Why do people insist on marginfor error, that is just plain stupid. With that theory no one should bow hunt, because there is absolutely no margin for error using a bow. If you dont hit the vitals you missed. A gut shot deer is not the way to measure a rifles performance, or an arrow, but is a way to measure the performance of the person behind the gun or bow. Just get a .223, use good bullets , take only broadside shots, and she'll be happy, and they'll be venison on the table.

Jag........there maybe little or no evidence of a hit to you. jag i'm just wondering how many times if any have you have shot a .223. i'd like to hear what makes you think there is a big differance between a .243 and .223 within let say the first 100 or 125 yards. remember i never said the .223 was the perfect round for whitetail but it is more than enough to do the job. you may want to shoot the two before you go any further because right now you don't have much fuel for your fire. oh about my name. for some unknown reason i can hit a clay pigeon at 300 yards all day long with a rifle but i can't hit one in the air with a shotgun at 100 feet.

I think you should step up to a caliber that can do the job more effectively, ie. a .243 min. theres a reason .22's are not legal deer rifle calibers in most states.

I've shot plenty of the .22's, especially the .223! I just don't shoot them at deer! I've seen, tracked, and cleaned up after the .22's mess!
The big difference between the .22's and the .243 is on an average of 300-400+ lbs. more muzzle energy in the 100 gr. 243 over any of the double dueces! Or how about 700 lbs. more energy than the mighty .223 Rem! Or how about the .243 retaining more energy @ 200 yards as the .223 has at the muzzle????
At best the .223 is an experts gun (I don't give it that much!) At their worst, the .22's are cripplers that wastes good game!
So my question to you is why start out young hunter with a gun thats destined to fail him?
As for "room for error,"Why would you NOT want room for error? Theres a dozen things that can lead to an errant shot, causing crippled and lost game!
Again, there ARE manageable calibers with accuracy and power that can make up for most less than perfect shots. There are perfectly good reasons that many states do not allow .22's on deer hunts. I wish my state would be amongst those states that outlaw the .22's!!!!!!!!!
With the reasoning of the .22's being adaquate deer killers, why don't we just have a game to see what the smallest object that will a deer is! A sling shot? A blow dart gun? They all can do the job on a good day, but can they do the job at all on a bad day?????

Well we went to the range again this weekend with the 30-30. It's odd, she appears to be flinching quite a bit yet when you look at her 2, 3 shot groups they were both justunder3 inches at 100. Again, she doesn't enjoy the practice with it but tells me she is ready to hunt with it. Then she picked up the 22lr and proceeded to put 200 rounds through it.
I think what I'll do is clean the gun, have her shoot 1 more group the day before the season and then she won't pull the trigger on it until it's at a deer. In the meantime she can put another 1000 rounds through the 22lr.
I appreciate all of your posts on the 223. Sounds like a lot of controversy to me which really did not put my mind at ease in purchasing one for her. If I think she is having an issue with the gun to the point she is hesitant about hunting I will revisit it then. But for now she says she's looking forward to deer #2
Thanks