actually I have HIT PPL playin golf so I will stick to what I KNOW. GUNS, I can/do control what they hit.

because in your post you now supposedly have this huge warm heart and cant hardly kill something because you feel bad. But you will take the chance of wounding a deer with a 22 hornet shooting a deer with a 22 hornet is like shooting your neighbors dog with a BB gun. either one is just plain mean.

I would quess that many of us did stupid things when we were young. Speaking for myself at least, I have grown to know better. As do most kids. I did however know better before I got a real gun as opposed to a BB gun.

My question is how much do we "experts" and "learned better", know about gun safety? I mean its a little off original theme of beating on this guy. Yea, you listened to the gun safety instructor. You heard not to shoot directly in water. Be careful of ricachets.

But for one who thinks its safe, I might not at all. I see guys on a pdog town shoot in the midwest, I might think its unsafe, maybe even don't buy the cattle breaking his leg theory outwieghts the needlessly kill prarrie dogs. By the way, I don't think that way, just throwing out an example of what several people (including deer hunters) think. And you never know until there is an accident. I know peoplewho has found 22slugs in the side of there house. And they can only conclude it came from them even though they were legal and many, many 100s of yards away and shooting away from the house. Theslugs were deformed and barely had enought velocity to stickthru the siding. Might have skipped the ground.

My neighbors have a range behind my house. Small 100yard path. I never had a problem with it.Some friends from Utica, NY, and Jerseyis at my house andthe coupleis astonished. Hekeeps saying, "thats crazy, they are within 250 yards from your house and there are kids down there with them". The range is legal and has a 15ft pushed dirt backstop of clay and at least. The guy is a shooter, somewhat, but to him, those guys a just jacka$$'s. For them living in a super liberal world like New Jersey and New York, (but also owns guns), this range is irresponcible. I totally disagree.

You know BC talking about freaky gun accidents. There was a pretty famous architect at the time who lived near Morristown NJ..this happened in the early 80's by my recollection. He had to do some sort of roof work on his house on the 4th of July for some reason. Guy gets to the top of the roof and slumps over. Wife thought it was a heart attack. Turns out Shonuffs kin is about 3-4 miles away and blasts his 7mm mauser in the air to celebrate the 4th the rest was his destiny I guess. I am going to try to dig up the article or maybe someone from that area can recall it before I do it. It made the front page of the Newark Star Ledger. BC you also know what a gun zealot I am. After that girl was shot I didn't pick up a gun for probably 2 years so I can see where some of these people are coming from..only thing is I was directly affected by that act they are listening to liberals blabbing it on TV.

I guess my point is, I accept that guns have somewhat a danger factor attached to them, even through our best efforts. But for me, its a needed freedom and I will accept therisks. I realize there is a chance of getting shot when I walk into the woods during rifle season by accident. I have shot across ponds before in my life. Not in the pond, just across them. Never thought it was so dangerous. I sure wouldn't be shooting turtles as I like to eat some turtles and for some reason was raised up to respect all turtles, prey matis, frogs etc.Not sure why our grandfather was so big on protecting frogs turtles and blacksnakes but it was ingrained in me. So I don't kill them.

Not sure age has anything to do with it so much. Last year while coming out of public woods, a 50 year old hunter had his bow at full draw on me at dusk. The light was just right to get anything moving confused. I yelled out.The guy appoligized and said he couldn't believed he got me mixed up. And thats never happened to him before in years of hunting. Yes it wasstill legal shooting times. 1/2 hour past dusk.

We just used a gig type thing to get ourturtles, and frogs.

OEH, I can understand your feeling as you were upclose and personal with it.

BC, your Grandfather was a Wise man. All those things he taught
you was for a reason. Take the bird (Purple Martin) each one eats
over 2000 sheeters a night. The Black snake keeps rats, mice and
other rodents in controlthat cause other animals to contact Rabies
after being biten my skeeters. The Mantis eats insects that are harmful
to our gardens and corps. I could go on and on, but I just wanted to
make a small example. Hunting has to do alot wih knowing alot with
nature and conservation, not just killing animals.
Yes, most of us did crazy things in the woods when we were young,
but the time came when we matured and became seasoned hunters
and learned to respect the hunting laws, conservation and nature.
Most of us just think this young man has alot to learn yet and hope
he learns before something drastic happens.

But you shoot yotes with a 17hmr, now thats being hypocritical.
I,m shooting deer with a caliber thats legal and I plan to eat that deer. thats not hypocritical.
I have never wounded a deer, have you ? have you recovered everydeer you shot ?
speaking of rifle hunting. I lost two deer with a bow. sad i was.

...and I was considering a .243 Winchester (80gr.) over the .22-250 I already own for 'yotes.

Hows shooting a 25 lbs coyote ( thats the biggest ive seen yet) with a 17 HMR hypocritical? perfecly ethical IMO. Now shooting a 150 lbs deer with a round not much bigger then a 17 HMR thats quite inhumane IMO. Im glad you plan to eat that deer but you gotta kill it first...........

Every deer I have shot has had a fatal wound from a single bullet and has never ran more then 100 yards. Even my very first deer I shot when i was 16 not a good shot but i was quite nervous, anxtious, excited all at the same time, you know buck fever?, and the deer was about 175+ yards away, the bullet struck only its left thigh but luckily the bullet destroyed its femural artery the deer ran about 100 yards leaving a really thick blood trail into a thicket when I found it it had mostly bled out and was just about expired, a swift crack over its head with a stick it was out then I put a nice slice through the jugular and field dressed it and headed for the truck. After that I actually didnt rifle hunt for 2 years but in those 2 years I shot my rifle alot and bow hunted deer unsuccessfully but did bag 2 turkey with my bow but never got a shot on a deer. when I began rifle hunting again every doe has had single round to the neck or head and every antlered buck either a double lung or heart shot, I did shoot a button buck at about 75 yards with a ballistic tip it was a quartering shot I tried to catch the little bit of vitals exposed but the bullet hit dead center in the butt hole the bullet went the full length of the deer and exited out the front of the right shoulder that deer dropped dead in its tracks.