renfrowridge

God here i go and agree with Zrex the .243 and the 6mm is more than enought for deer if you need any thing bigger than these you need to go to the range , Put a buttel where it counts and it DIES. You dont need any thing bigger but Zrex you wont change the minds of any of these people here you know that from the last 4 pages of post, all the people that use the .243 and the 6mm will just keep stacking up the deer with this poor round and keep smileing at the rest.......

longrifle1000

Yes, the 300 would be inferior accordingly. It has to do with caliber of bullet playing into the factor. I am sorry if you have a hard time understanding that.

And on a side note. I never said the 243 was not a good deer round. I merely pointed out that their are better choices available.

zrexpilot

So the 45-70 is better than a 300 mag , 7mm mag, 280 rem .270, 30-06 and so on ?
because of a couple of theory's, that some big game knuckle head hunter conjured up Huh ?Oooooohhhhhh I didnt know that.
LOL! unfreakinbelievable !

longrifle1000

I am sure that knuckle head hunter knows more about this subject then you could ever hope to understand. Those numbers are dealing with the ability to kill. Period! A 45-70 will kill better than a 300 mag. The bigger the hole the more damage is done. Never mind, I give up trying to explain this to you. Good luck to you and your beloved 243. You will now have to argue your thoughts with some one else.

James B

I also must say that Taylor who hunted all over the world for all kinds of game certainly knows and understands why Big heavy bullets at low velocity will out penetrate any light bullet at extremly high velocity. Here we are talking big mean animals where many inches of penetration in heavy bone and muscle is everything. A 450-500 grain bullet will penetrate 50 percent further at 1800 FPS that it will at 2400 fps. Over expansion will stop penetration and destroy a bullets ability to travel in a straight line once it enters the beast. The heavy bullets stay together which adds greatly to the momentum. Velocty may start momentum but bullet weight sustains it.

You can laugh at Taylors KO thereory but you can argue with the result of the high numbers on Big heavy animals. You won't see African big game hunters who are after the big animals counting on high velocity light weight bullets. They wany 300 grain minimum and 400-500 grains are better yet.

zrexpilot

well heres where it gets complicated, if what you say is true that the slower bullet will penetrate farther, then this goes against the momentum and tko theorys.
.................................................. .....MV.........TKO
A 40 cal. 500 gr bullet at 2400 fps.....120..........68
a 40 cal...500 gr bullet at 1800 fps.....90...........57

zrexpilot

LMFAO! basing your opinions on the outcome of young shooters Hahaha.
Put a .308 in those kids hands and you'll still be chasing deer.

James B

The KO number does not really take penetration into account. All heavy bullets offer good penetration regardless of speed. But on either the Corbon or Garret site there is data from testing done with the 45-70, 458 Win Mag, 458 Lott and 460 Weatherby. All using solid or heavy hard cast bullets. The 45-70 had 50 percent more penetration than the 460. The other two were in between but the 45-70 beat them bad at pure penetration. Thats why there is no way in H*&l that you can take part of the equation of energy. Momentum , Velocity KO or ME and determine anything completly. What Taylor is talking about for cape buffalo is apples an oranges to what concerns us for hunting deer and varmits. A 150 graiin bullet at 3500 fps and a 500 grain bullet at 1600 fps is going to kill the animals thet were intended to kill just fine. However how they do it may be completly different. A bullet that will easy penetrate to a deers vitals and even exit the other side, may not even go through the hide of a Cape buffalo without comming apart. Taylors KO was figured on the big heavy bullets that he used in Africa and India. Its niether a farse or a reading from the gospel. Its a different thereory from a different kind of hunter using different equipment.

Also if you go back and read my other post you will see that I said part of the problem with the 243 is not the gun. Its the young shooters who often use it. Now thats the fact but are not using the 308 or that would also be a problem with it. You go off defending your baby without even reading what is posted.

biscuit jake

Love this topic. Some cartridges outkill their ballistics. Eg, I would put the 45 70 and 6.5 x 55 Swede in that class. Historically, the Swede killed (holy yikes!) polar bears. Now, in the case of the .243 Winchester, the ballistics are pretty decent and if I hunted deer with it (I am in a shotgun state these days, sucks so much) I would have no hesitation. I am kidding a bit about using something like a triple deuce. Yes, it works, but I see it as a technical shot, IE, you need to know where to hit the critter. And with varmint rifles, and let me know.... has anyone taken a butt shot on a full sized deer and dropped it with a 243? Bambi doesn't always give a broadside shot.

James B

I hunted with the triple two for quite a while. I had one of those o/u Savage rifles with the 222 over 20 Ga. I also hunted deer for a couple seasons with the 22 Hornet. Then I found out that it wasn't lgal for deer in our state. The 222 was the minimum. I shot a nice four point Mulie with it the last time I used it. He was facing me and I hit him about half way down the throat. He never took a step. I was just a youngster then. I thought if it brought home the bacon it was ok to use. As kids before we even had a deer season where we lived, we shot them once in a while with the 22 rimfire. Like a lot of young guys, one of the first rifles I ever bought when I got my first job was a 243. I used it for several years but just never really liked the way it performed on deer. The bullets were not very good to start with. With the Nosler Partition its a fair deer rifle but there are so many better choices. Even more so if you intend to go after bigger game as well.

The 6.5x55 has taken all the big game up North around the Artic circle. Moose Grizzly Elk Musk Ox and Elk. Not many bullets penetrate like the high SD 264 caliber bullets. You don't need much over 2500 fps to get the job done. Your right about the 45-70 It has taken every species of Game on this planet.