So you pop em off at 400 yds with iron sights and they drop instantly? WOW!

Isn't 400 yards minimum range in Montana?

I remember shooting the M16 at 500 meters with open sights. (We were all wishing to have the M14 back!) No problem if you have your dope on.

Besides, it isn't the 1400 foot pounds or so that kills at 400. The hit lands unaware, and then the muzzle blast finishes 'em off!

Heh, heh.

Arbeitler addresses a problem that is prevalent in our society. When I was a kid and wanted to know more about hunting and guns I had a friend of the family take me under their wing and show me the ins and outs of this great sport. Nowadays people that are interested have nowhere to turn for this info. Everyone plays golf nowadays instead of hunting and fishing.[:@] Arbeitler I would suggest a 30-06 or 7 Rem mag for your future hunting means. Both have about the same recoil level and both do the job on medium to large game. As you become more proficient or you want more adventure you can go on to different cartridges if you like but for some hunters they are all you'll ever need for a lifetime of hunting. I wouldn't be disappointed at all if I were limited to either of these 2 fine cartridges. 30/30 while a great whitetail cartridge within its means(150 yard max range) it will hardly do the trick on most western game at some long western ranges(200-300 yards)

plainsman,

What type of ammo are you using in your 30-06?

Ive taken 1 deer past the 400 yard mark with my 308, even with 4x magnification that deer was still pretty small, probably the biggest thing id be worried about shooting at that long of distance is exactly what happened to me, something called time of flight I was lined up on that deer and just as i pulled my trigger it took a step or two forward in the time it took the bullet to get there, my bullet struck it square in the guts, i thought it was good hit because it took off running and folded over after about 40 yards but when I retrieved it the deer had a hole in its stomach and intestines hanging out of the exit wound, when i field dressed it the intestines were perferated stomach was busted open the smell of the mixture of bowl and stomach acid is enough to make some of the toughest men puke I was having the dry heeves the whole time. The only vital organ somehow or another that was hit was the liver so the massive internal hemridging would explain why it expired after only 40 yards of running.

Nowdays I try to keep my shots as close as possible if I have any doubts I dont shoot.
I've learned to avoid the smell of the mixture of bowl and stomach acid at all costs just thinking about how bad it smelled is making me gag right now.

If you want a powerfull cartrige for out west then id go with one of these.
*30-06
*45-70
*300 weatherby magnum
*416 rigby

A recipe an old friend makes up for his 30.06, all I know is that the slugs are 165 gr. noslers. Haven't had any trouble yet. For those thinking that anything past 300yd. is a long shot haven't spent their lives hunting mule deer in Alberta. I don't shoot at moving animals or animals that I expect to move soon at this range, I won't take that kind of shot unless I think the deer will be stationary for a little bit longer.

Believe it or not!!

Western AFRICA maybe!

The 416 Rigby is an obsolecent cartridge that has little place in North America. If you are not a handloader, I wouldn't consider this cartridge for a New York minute, because you probably won't find ammo, and if you do it'll cost you MINIMUM $75 a box. If you handload, you can load it for cheaper, but you'll pay a premium for brass.

He asked about a rifle for shooting at longer ranges common out west. Sure, a .45-70 can do it if one is great at doping range and a crack shot, because by the time that big inefficient slug gets out to 300 yards the trajectory looks like an artillery shell. Not exactly a flat shooting rifle. If he hunts up close in the thick stuff, a 45-70 would be great, but in wide open spaces, it loses its luster really fast.

Another less popular and MUCH more expensive cartridge (albeit an excellent one if one handloads or has a lot of money). You have some expensive tastes in rifle cartridges, but I'm assuming that he doesn't have $35-60 to drop PER BOX of 20 for the ammo, and that he's not a handloader.

My suggestion would be to go with a cartridge that is popular enough that you can easily find ammo at Walmart (or similar) and that is cheap enough to shoot regularly to become proficient with the rifle, yet still meets or exceeds your performance needs without being excessivly loud or kick so hard it'll make you a bad shot if you don't practice like crazy.

You've already said that you want to shoot "bigger game," which I take to mean bigger than whitetailed deer, excluding the VERY large and dangerous game like the great bears, bison and such. You also said you want a cartridge "that will shoot longer distances," which I'll assume to mean that you intend to reach out farther than a .30-30 can reasonably reach, which in my mind is 150 yards, but not really looking at shooting at extreme ranges (400+ yards, out where VERY FEW people can take ETHICAL shots on game. Let's face it, most people THINK they are better shots than they are).

Factoring in the conditions in the above two paragraphs, I'd probably choose the following cartridges in this order:

7mm Remington Magnum (7mm Rem Mag, or just 7mm Mag for short): Very popular cartridge, fairly inexpensive, flat shooting and powerful enough to take anything up to and including moose at reasonable ranges (400 yards). Ammo is readily available and the selection of factory bullets for a variety of different types of game is very good. Also doesn't kick too much harder than a .30-06 in most rifles.

300 Winchester Magnum (300 Win Mag): Excellent all around big game cartridge that with the right load will take anything on the North Amercan continent, although I'd probably opt for something a little bigger is my prey can kill me back. Popular and easy to find in a wide variety of loads (though not as common as the 7mm Rem Mag), it does also boast a bit more recoil and will take some practice to master without developing a flinch. Ammo is usually about $18-27 a box in my area, which is pretty good for a .30cal magnum.

.270 Winchester Short Magnum (.270WSM): A relative newcomer, but has become quite popular in the short time since it was introduced. Ammo is not as easy to find at places like Wally World, but it's getting better. Ammo can be easily found at sporting goods stores. Ammo is also not really that expensive. This seems to be an outstanding cartridge for medium to heavy cloven hooved game at most practical ranges. Very flat shooting without a lot of recoil. Also has the advantage of using a short action receiver, making the rifle shorter and lighter than a standard magnum. Handily exceeds the performance of the ever popular .270 Winchester, even in a shorter barrel. With a longer magnum length barrel (24-26") the performance is truly remarkable.

Just my thoughts,

Mike

If you join a local high powered rifle shooting club, go to the range as much as possible and ask questions. A pitfall in doing this, is that many shooters will only tout the rifle/cartridge combination that they are using! The very least that you can learn, is how the rifle shoots for them. Walk down range when they collect their targets and look at the results. Maybe keep a log and learn which cartridges will fit your needs. Many cartridge/rifle combinations will fit into the plans that you outlined and it is very difficult to pin down what you should get without your checking things out on your own. The shooting range is one place where you can see lots of rifles shooting lots of different calibers and have the chance to speak to folks who are using them.
I know, at our local range, people have shown up that know very little about rifles and cartridges. Most anyone at our range will take the time to answer questions and even allow someone to put a round or two down range. New people coming into our hobby are the life's blood of the sport and most are welcomed and encouraged to become gun nuts, just like we are!

If you join a local high powered rifle shooting club, go to the range as much as possible and ask questions. A pitfall in doing this, is that many shooters will only tout the rifle/cartridge combination that they are using! The very least that you can learn, is how the rifle shoots for them. Walk down range when they collect their targets and look at the results. Maybe keep a log and learn which cartridges will fit your needs. Many cartridge/rifle combinations will fit into the plans that you outlined and it is very difficult to pin down what you should get without your checking things out on your own. The shooting range is one place where you can see lots of rifles shooting lots of different calibers and have the chance to speak to folks who are using them.
I know, at our local range, people have shown up that know very little about rifles and cartridges. Most anyone at our range will take the time to answer questions and even allow someone to put a round or two down range. New people coming into our hobby are the life's blood of the sport and most are welcomed and encouraged to become gun nuts, just like we are!