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Remington 770

Old 01-01-2021, 08:41 AM
  #11  
Fork Horn
 
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I think that is the model that Rem molds the plastic stock with an eye for a sling and no stud.Those stocks are junk and I know of a case where one broke right off when walkin with the rifle shouldered.The Rifle fell right to the ground.He had to get a replacement stock which was a PITA.I won,t own a Rifle without a sling swivel stud.
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Old 01-01-2021, 08:49 AM
  #12  
Nontypical Buck
 
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Originally Posted by GOOD OLE BOY View Post
I think that is the model that Rem molds the plastic stock with an eye for a sling and no stud.Those stocks are junk and I know of a case where one broke right off when walkin with the rifle shouldered.The Rifle fell right to the ground.He had to get a replacement stock which was a PITA.I won,t own a Rifle without a sling swivel stud.
there is a ton of company's that make replacement stocks for the 770 and there NOT hard at all to get or replace

and most are well under 200 bucks?
and almost ZERO rifles I know of come with a swivel sling mount on there stocks, and this includes some \super HIGH end rifles!
I agree there sure nice and saves things from coming loose, but I don;t think it really adds any strength to things!

everything and anything can break, from a flaw from when made to how cared for and handled and used/abused

but tyopiclaly stocks on rifles are pretty solid items that last a long time

over the yrs there have been flaws in some models(CZ safari model comes to mind, where the recoil lug would hit and break stock after a bunch of shots being fired and, then ther redesigned things to stop it)

but its not a very common flaw in most rifles

any how
here is some replacement stocks, as stated NOT hard to find or options t here is 3 pages of stocks to pick from, with little effort to find them!

https://1022racerifle.com/remington/770/stocks/
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Old 01-02-2021, 08:30 AM
  #13  
Typical Buck
 
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Originally Posted by idahoron View Post
I was talking with Mark Slidlinger he was Remington's VP of marketing at one time....

I told him that the gun manufactures are losing sight of what a gun is supposed to be. When I was a kid Remington's, Winchesters, things of beauty and shot well. They were handed down to like minded family members and those guns are still in service, or could be today.
The problem is manufactures are just producing guns that will get a guy by. They are cheap enough that he can buy one try it and if he doesn't like it sell it and get something else...

If a guy wants a quality firearm now days you have to look at manufactures that are not the big guys. Some are fantastic rifles and it was my opinion that those types of rifles were what was spelling the end of the big manufactures.
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Could you tell us his response?

What you describe actually creates a problem for a gun manufacturer. A grandfather passes on his old pre-64 model 70 Winchester to a grandson and now the youngster has no need to buy a gun at all.

There's also other dynamics at work. Today, fewer youth are hunting, and they don't get introduced to guns through hunting. They get introduced to guns increasingly through video games and movies, and that's what they want to shoot. Hence, many are far more interested in AR style rifles and semi-auto pistols than they are in wood and steel bolt actions and Smith and Wesson model 10 revolvers. If they get Grandpa's model 70, it may less appeal to them than an AR-15., and they sell the Winchester to get the black rifle.

A gun that just gets a guy by is actually a boon for a gun manufacturer. It means the purchaser may or will eventually buy another gun. (This is what led to the idea of "planned obsolescence" in the 1960s).

And this is the truth about today's budget guns: Even a lowly plastic stock Axis, 783, American, or similar sometimes reported to get less than 1 MOA out of the box. 2 MOA is probably substandard. They often outperform yesterday's wood and steel beauties. A lot of new buyers just want a gun to hunt deer with, the less expensive budget rifle gets it done just fine.

Today's gun market for traditional hunting rifles is actually becoming glutted, and that's narrowing the profit margins. A small company that makes really high end guns can make a go of it, but large corporations do better with volume sales at a low price. The money for them probably lies more in selling an inexpensive bolt action, ARs, and semi-auto pistols--those wonder nines like the Glocks.

They're not pretty, but they're profitable. That's what increasing numbers of customers want and that's where the money lies. What a gun is supposed to be is dictated by the buyers in the market, and more of them are saying they want something besides fine wood and steel. They want something affordable and they want something cool like the gun in the video game. Fail to give them that, and a company's guns will not sell and that heads them towards bankruptcy.

The other problem is one we've faced before: the problem of production costs. They doomed classic guns like the pre-64 Winchesters and the Savage 99. They were costly to make and had to be priced too high for adequate sales and profitability. It's the same today with a plastic stock bolt action. That plastic keeps the costs down and the profitability up because so much of the buying is driven by the price tag, not the material that went into the stock .
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Old 01-02-2021, 09:05 AM
  #14  
Nontypical Buck
 
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and don't forget all the big gun company's have custom shops that will make you pretty much anything you want, so if you want a high end pretty wood blued rifle, even add some custom engraving, and OWN a hand me down prized possession of likes
they WILL make you one

problem is when folks inherent many prized guns, they DON"T actually HUNT with them, they save them for maybe special events/hunts or well, just keep as memories sake! and pass on to the next gen

and since were now in a generation or two of the mind set THROW AWAY everything and buy new again, always thinking NEW is better!
there isn;t a ton of families that still have traditions of handing down guns, just look at how few NEW hunters are getting into sport
and of the new SHOOTERS< most are younger generations that want GUNS of there ERA
plastic and guns they don't fear scratching up or even abusing at times

Old time hunters with family guns, seem to be a dying breed sadly
and most of them value there guns they have handed down FAR more than price tags will ever show!

it reminds me a lot of family land/ be it forested or farm land
for generations families, worked there lives, put heart and souls into the land , it means/meant the world to them
then they DIE< and well kids cannot sell it fast enough to get the $$ from it,a s they don;t want the hassle or work to keep it!

seen this with guns as well, kids get em in wills and come to shops asking for worth , as many rather the $$ over the gun period! times have changed!


they have NO value on sentimental things as so many generations before have IMO!
its a changing world and mind set on the majority , and the gun company's know this! and market what makes them money, ,
THEY again have the custom shop for the few that wish to have something special!
so fine guns are still there from the big players!

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Old 01-03-2021, 06:53 PM
  #15  
Nontypical Buck
 
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Originally Posted by Father Forkhorn View Post
Could you tell us his response?

What you describe actually creates a problem for a gun manufacturer. A grandfather passes on his old pre-64 model 70 Winchester to a grandson and now the youngster has no need to buy a gun at all.

There's also other dynamics at work. Today, fewer youth are hunting, and they don't get introduced to guns through hunting. They get introduced to guns increasingly through video games and movies, and that's what they want to shoot. Hence, many are far more interested in AR style rifles and semi-auto pistols than they are in wood and steel bolt actions and Smith and Wesson model 10 revolvers. If they get Grandpa's model 70, it may less appeal to them than an AR-15., and they sell the Winchester to get the black rifle.

A gun that just gets a guy by is actually a boon for a gun manufacturer. It means the purchaser may or will eventually buy another gun. (This is what led to the idea of "planned obsolescence" in the 1960s).

And this is the truth about today's budget guns: Even a lowly plastic stock Axis, 783, American, or similar sometimes reported to get less than 1 MOA out of the box. 2 MOA is probably substandard. They often outperform yesterday's wood and steel beauties. A lot of new buyers just want a gun to hunt deer with, the less expensive budget rifle gets it done just fine.

Today's gun market for traditional hunting rifles is actually becoming glutted, and that's narrowing the profit margins. A small company that makes really high end guns can make a go of it, but large corporations do better with volume sales at a low price. The money for them probably lies more in selling an inexpensive bolt action, ARs, and semi-auto pistols--those wonder nines like the Glocks.

They're not pretty, but they're profitable. That's what increasing numbers of customers want and that's where the money lies. What a gun is supposed to be is dictated by the buyers in the market, and more of them are saying they want something besides fine wood and steel. They want something affordable and they want something cool like the gun in the video game. Fail to give them that, and a company's guns will not sell and that heads them towards bankruptcy.

The other problem is one we've faced before: the problem of production costs. They doomed classic guns like the pre-64 Winchesters and the Savage 99. They were costly to make and had to be priced too high for adequate sales and profitability. It's the same today with a plastic stock bolt action. That plastic keeps the costs down and the profitability up because so much of the buying is driven by the price tag, not the material that went into the stock .
He basically agreed with me, especially when talking about the 22 market. If you look at the big name gun manufacture's most of them have went bankrupt, restructured, sold out. Like you said, There are smaller companies that are actually building better rifles than the big names. And they are asking way more money for the rifles.
I don't think that the passing down of guns is actually hurting them that much. If you look at the number of guns sold per year compared to the number of people, you can see pretty fast that there has to be some very large collections out there.
I don't see anyone that grew up with pre 64's buying these cheap guns, but maybe I am wrong. I have bought several fiberglass stocks for rifles that I wanted to be more weather proof. I have bought Stainless guns for their look and weather resistance.
I have never thought to buy a cheap gun to use, abuse, and get a new one in a year or two.
I really hope that the quality gun manufactures don't go away but I am afraid they might. And all that will be left is AR's and boat paddle guns.

Last edited by idahoron; 01-03-2021 at 07:04 PM.
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Old 01-04-2021, 08:35 AM
  #16  
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Originally Posted by idahoron View Post
He basically agreed with me, especially when talking about the 22 market.
I really hope that the quality gun manufactures don't go away but I am afraid they might. And all that will be left is AR's and boat paddle guns.
What I'm really interested in is what he might have said about profitability. What are the ways that guns can be profitable for a manufacturer?

The traditional taste for guns that last a lifetime creates a bit of a boondoggle for manufacturers of traditional hunting weapons. The hunting market has been shrinking (at least pre-covid) and the average age of hunters is going up.

This scenario is probably going to become more frequent: A Grandpa passed on a pre-64 model 70, his post-64 Winchester 94, and a Savage 110 onto non-hunting grandkids. It means there will soon be three used guns for sale at the gun shop. The grandson traded them for ARs. A collector quickly snaps up the model 70, but the other two may sit there at least till deer season. The gun buyers who did come in were in their twenties and thirties and barely glanced at the "old timer" guns. Instead, they head right for the AR rack. They might go for something labeled "creedmoor".

Last edited by Father Forkhorn; 01-04-2021 at 08:53 AM.
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Old 01-04-2021, 10:11 AM
  #17  
Fork Horn
 
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You could also look at it like this - this is the male equivalent of getting fine china and stainless place settings when getting married decades ago. My wife and I had our first tiff over my lack of interest in selecting a china pattern. We have some nice china, crystal stemware and stainless place setting. That china, stainless and crystal stemware is pretty to look at, costs much more than stuff will get the job done just as easily and few young people care to spend money on china that can be passed down to future generations. None of our three children are interested in the stuff and it's not worth much on resale sites.

Times change. Tastes change. Firearms owners have different priorities these days and don't appear to be willing to pay for beauty just for the sake of beauty. Some of it is also vanity, I think. A Rolex doesn't tell time any better than a $5 cheapo at Walmart or an Iphone. It's primary duty is to set someone apart from others. If I remember correctly, it's call positional goods in economics. Same with many luxury brands of cars. Nothing wrong with it, but one is often paying more for aesthetics and not function.

When most basic rifles will - from my reading - shoot well less than 2" MOA and will get the job done for the vast majority of hunters, then it doesn't make sense to try to sell folks on sentimental ideas and nostalgia.
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