Most accurate rifle
 

Hi every one, I have a question, what is the most accurate hunting rifle? I have had good luck with Browning, Sauer, tikka, I presently have a Weatherby Vanguard and a Ruger American and nether one shoots worth a sh*t with factory or reloads. I have no experience with Savage or Winchester or Remington.
I realize that this is a very subjective question but I have no experience with the above 3 brands and I need some advice. Thx for all your help.

I used to work for a guy, an old sage kinda guy.
always told me not to blame the tool.

i can take any rifle and hit a pie plate at a hundred yards.
which is accurate to my standards.
i shoot about ten various rifles single shots, levers, bolts.
theyre all winchester or remington, and all i ever shoot is remington factory loads.

im honestly having a hard time understanding how a rifle could "shoot like #&*@"
none of the rifles i shoot can be worth more than 300, and the ones youre talking about are like thousand dollar rifles.
i think it's you but that's just me.

I had some problems with rifle accuracy then bought a new Remington with a Monte Carlo stock...just a slight head adjustment made the difference.

Pie plate accuracy at 100 ....uh, ok.
RR

What standard of accuracy are you looking for? It makes a difference. If you're shooting bugholes with the first three and cloverleafs with the last two at 100 yards, you may not have the problem you think you do. If you're shooting 1.5" with the first three and 3" with the last two, your problem may not be your rifles.

I'll try to word this as gently as I can. Many of us grew up with a parent who was drilled in the "8 steady hold factors" - and who in turn drilled them into us. Some of us had further encouragement from loud people wearing Smokey Bear hats who further seared those factors into our brains.

As I drift around the gun counters and at the range lately, I'm concerned that I run into too many shooters who seem to be well-read, but poorly-practiced. They can tell you all the virtues of the latest cartridge or reticle, but can't hit the broad side of a barn. Some of the guys behind the gun counter are the worst offenders. Too much media and marketing exposure, too little marksmanship training.

You may or may not fall into the above. What's working with the first three rifles that isn't working with the last two? Specifically? What tells you that the last two aren't working? Is the quality of the optics and mounts similar? Were they correctly installed? The only one of the rifles you mention that I own is the Vanguard. It won't win any prize past 600 yards, but it does reliably kill elk in the field at ranges less than that.

I just went through the biggest mind screw of all when it comes to accuracy in a rifle. To make a long story short. My favorite hunting rifle in a standard contour barrel seemed to have lost it's edge and started stringing shots like crazy. After a few hundred rounds and a lot of tinkering it's back to shooting solid groups again. But here's the key I'm back to the original accurate load it liked to begin with. It was a stock issue and how in the world it had changed or moved is beyond me. So the end result is I got my confidence back in it and it's shooting just like it was brand new.

The thing is most of us are buying factory hunting style guns $1000.00 or less. I'm sorry to say but unless you get a really really good one off the shelf your going to spend a lot of time on the reloading bench tuning a load to the rifle to even remotely compare to a rebuilt rifle or custom gun that someone has chunked a ton of money into.

I know everyone says my gun puts holes in holes at 100yards. I consider myself a pretty decent shot and it takes a really well put together rifle to be able to do that consistently. I'm not happy until mine are at least clover leaf'in at that range. Human error is a common factor in all this. Among playing with rifle mentioned above I tweaked my shooting form that had been slacking. There are so many variables to making a rifle shoot in that sweet spot. Best thing is to start reading column after column of articles and try them all sooner or later you'll find your issue and possibly an easy fix without dumping a ton of money in a $500.00 gun that's tolerances are made to accommodate every round on the shelf at the gun shop.

100yards is not the best place to test accuracy of loads in a rifle. Spread that range out to 200, 300 and 400 yards and start testing loads and shooting groups. You'll find what your rifle likes. It may not be all that spectacular on paper but remember if your staying under 1" at 100 yards then you should be able to stay under 3" at 300 yards and so on. So you shoot 500 yards and got a 4 1/2" group your right where your standard factory rifle's tolerances are probably made for. But running MOA or better at the appropriate range is no room for complaint for a standard factory rifle. That's all they are made to do.

But every once in awhile you'll get a really nice shooting factory rifle. And when it seems to go out of whack go back to the basic's before going to the gunsmith. I think your rifles will find what they want to shoot and if they don't go see the smithy but your going to start to spend some cash.

For example my 300 win mag has .313 of jump before the bullet touches the lands it shoots this way the best always has. That's the amount of tolerance that a factory rifle will have. Most really accurate rifle like to be right at the cut of the nut into the lands for the best groups. I have a ton to learn and chasing bullets around in the chamber is a lot of time at the range. But that's it the more time at the range the better you get and that in itself takes out another variable in the equation.

So maybe your just like me and can shoot have confidence in your shooting but we have a lifetime of knowledge to learn on exactly how to make just more than one rifle shoot and shoot well 100% of the time. Even the best benchrest shooters will laugh at the 100% of the time comment. They know better. I'll settle for a good day and a good group or two at the range at distance to know I can count on one particular rifle.

Sadly I do believe that there are a fair number of guys who can not keep them on a pie plate at 100 yards from any shooting position other than from the bench. I almost never see people target shooting (not the tactical crowd just blasting away) from the standing position, and it is extremely doubtful if most guys can use a sling for anything other than a carry strap.

I'd bet that half of the new "snipers" cold not keep 100 shots on a trash can lid at 100 from standing, unless they are using a keyboard.

Big uncle good post...I just posted to someone asking about shooting sticks and bi-pods and the use of them...told them that using their sling will give them a good steady "rest" out in the field when game is coming in hot and fiddling with a stick or pod isn't an option...to make their using the sling second nature at the range.Then if they want too try a pod or stick do so. I sight in with a bench but practice off hand(may not be correct term..but one I use)...not always are we hunting with a shooting rail...

Good post Big Uncle. Sadly, I see people at the range that are happy if they are on paper at 100 yards. I also see others that are shooting handloads and want maximum velocity from them, not accuracy loads. Listened to the 3 of them, and one fellow that had a 2900 fps load that shot well wasn't happy. He wanted his son to load all of them to 3100 fps. For me the 3100 load sucked, but he needed it. I love shooting off hand standing at 300 yards at the reactive targets, and a lot of them can't hit them at 100 yards. Minute of garbage can don't cut it. I don't feel like chasing something into the next county because of a bad hit. The game that you are chasing deserves better than that. I have also seen some wound an animal and "oh well, we'll find another one". They are slobs and I have no use for people like that at all.

yeah, when i go to the range with my 45-70 single and the whole tactical crowd is there. and they are always there.
not bashing anything about tactical, but i dont shoot them.
I shoot my 45 in a standing position using the sling.
but it was my impression that most of those guys at the range just got done watching the discovery channel right before they came. half of them can't even fix a jam.

yeah i shoot a bigger gun than you do and i only shoot it standing
ive never missed a deer
i practice practically, a deers vitals aren't smaller than a pie plate.
i dont shoot for fun, i test my gun to shoot meat, why waste my over a dollar a piece bullets sighting any tighter than that? to be cool?
and imo if youre shooting at game at over 100 yards its because you didn't have the skill to be closer

Accurate Rifles
 

My 2 Remington M700s at 200 yards:

Those are fine 5 shot offhand groups!

LOL... :biggrin: :biggrin: :biggrin:

Nope

have killed many, many deer at less than 20 steps, not a big deal, if your satisfied with pie plate accuracy, good thing you get close with your big gun.
RR

I have 2 Winchester M70s, both classic stainless. One has the BOSS system on it, the other doesn't. One is a 7mm rem mag, nothing done with the trigger, the other is a 300RUM with a trigger job done. Both sit in drop in Winchester wood stocks, no bedding. Both shoot ragged holes to single holes at 100 yards. I have a Remington 798(mauser made in Europe) that I bought on a special sale rack at a gun shop in Tulsa. Paid $450 for it or about that, in 375H&H. Threw a new redfield 2-7x on it, and shoot ragged holes at 100 yards with it.

The point of all of that is, ignore all the glory ads that claim Remington or whoever is the most accurate rifle out of the box. All modern bolt action rifles are capable of these kind of groups. The things that make the biggest difference IMO is how good is the shooter and I mean that honestly, how good is the scope mounted, how good is the scope, how good is the trigger, and then the ammo used. I load my own ammo, and with that I've obtained the best groups. I have two Leupolds, one Oregon made Redfield(well leupold made redfield) and a Zeiss. I have two simmons scopes to which they sit on a shelf. I Loctite my scope mounts and use dovetail bases. I'm also not the kind that show up two weeks before season and expect perfect groups either. The gun is a tool. It is up to the shooter to be accurate.

Championship points pouring off of this one...

Haha, not even touching this one!
-Jake

***Me neither! Just let the kid continue talking about his pieplate accuracy standard, since he obviously doesn't realize he's making a fool of himself in every post he makes!!! :confused0024:

ruger m77 .308 is the most accurate rifle ive ever shot

Guys I am the OP, I have been working and have not had a chance to read all your replies. Sorry for the rant, I am not an expert shot by any means and that is one reason why I reload. But it rankles me that these gun experts say they can get MOA with factory ammo and using the same ammo off a lead sled with no wind I get 2-3 inch groups. With my reloads I can get both my Weatherby and Ruger American to shoot 1.25 -1.75 three shot groups at 100 yards, but this is with shooting many different loads. With other rifles I and my Father own I can shoot MOA at 100 which is not great but plenty good for what we hunt. Maybe I am expecting to much from a factory rifle.

I have a Winchester Model 70 (early 1990s vintage) in a 30-06 and a Weatherby Vanguard Series 2 in a 300 Win Mag. I get sub MOA with both these rifles using premium factory ammo. I have begun reloading to help improve my accuracy. I also have quality bases/rings and high quality scopes on both rifles. Practice makes perfect.

gun scribes always seem to make it better than it is, in my 40 years of experience I can say factory rifles are the luck of the draw, if I want a rifle to shoot well I just have it built. could post some groups but seems I catch hell for it every time, have one rebarreled once and you'll know what I mean
RR

Reloading isn't a guarantee that your ammunition will be any better than factory loads, and even those who shoot well will often tell you they're not an expert shot. We all blow it from time to time.

What mounts are on these rifles? Were they torqued to spec? Loc-Tite'ed? I've seen cheap and poorly installed mounts wreck the accuracy of many a fine rifle.

If you're getting 2-3" groups off a sled, I'd be looking at mounting issues first.

Don't let it rankle you. In some guns, factory ammo does really well, while in others, it doesn't. Just like some loads you probably have found don't perform as well as other loads when you roll your own. There is nothing wrong with 1.25-1.75" groups. Is it sniper accurate, not in the least, but is it plenty accurate for hunting, absolutely! Particularly if you can do this in multiple shooting positions. Factory rifles can and do perform better than that in a lot of cases though. Something you may look into if you have yet to do this, is scrub your barrel with JB bore compound. I have found after a hundred or so rounds thru a gun, if I do this, the accuracy jumps right up. Factory barrels tend to foul from my own experience until they break in. This stuff tends to get them pretty clean. Other people may offer different advice though.
Model 798 375H&H 260gr Nosler Partition, RL15 100yards. Flyer was my fault, I pulled. Gun is untouched internally. Just a redfield 2-7x

Lead sled isn't a guarantee of utmost accuracy either. I shoot far better off of a front rest and sandbag than I ever did out of a sled, heck, better off of a bipod prone than I do out of a sled.

I'm surprised to hear you can't find a factory load that doesn't group better than 2-3" at 100yrds. Are you possibly running bullet weights not appropriate for your twist and velocity? Might have some warranty level issue if everything is lined up and you can't get it any better than that.

All mounting hardware was degreased, torqued to spec and Loctite. Have tried factory and handloads 150, 165, 180 grains. 165 seems the best on both rifles. The Ruger American is fairly new so I may be able to get to MOA but the Vanguard, I don't know what to say, I have tried Barnes, Hornady, Speer, and Gamkings and the only thing that shoots halfway decent is Gamekings. The rifle is thoroughly cleaned after every session, I guess the next thing is to see if another scope will help

What make mounts and scope are you using now? I'm also assuming also a .30-caliber (.308, .30-06, .300-something-magnum)?

The groups you're getting from your Vanguard at 100 yards are what I'd expect from mine at 300. That you're having similar accuracy issues with the Ruger is puzzling. Has anyone else fired these two and, if so, did the accuracy issues persist?

Unless you know you have junk glass on the Vanguard now, attempting to solve the problem by buying a new scope may be throwing good money after bad at this point.

On the Vanguard scope is a Zeiss 3-9 with leupold mounts, the Ruger I believe has warn steel mounts with a cheap Bushnell scope. What I don't understand is when I first took the Vanguard out it shoot a 4 shot group at .75 MOA using GK 150g with 40g of IMR 3031 with a coal 2765 and I thought Great! this thing is going to be a tack driver, that was the first load I ever fired out of this rifle, just think of what I can do with other reloads or factory stuff. Problem is I have never been able to duplicate this with this exact load or any other for that matter. Now I get 1.25 - 1.5 3 shot Moa with this same load. Rifle is thoroughly cleaned after every shoot. Every thing else I have shot does worse than this.
From everything I have heard on this forum from other articles I have read Vanguards are supposed to be tack drivers.

Do what I suggested, get some JB bore compound and scrub the barrel. Clean the barrel out good after doing so, then check your groups the next outing at the range. Also make sure your stock screws having backed out at all.

Are the lugs tight? I have the lugs loosen up once and accuracy was waaaaay off. Worth checking.

IMO it has more to do with a "good" rifle & scope ($$$), ammo that the gun likes, and a competent marksman !

Most accurate rifle? Hmmm....

My vote would be for the incredibly accurate (right out of the box!) Savage rifles, preferably chambered in .308 with a good quality scope. Ammo would be any flavor of Federal Premium .308 rounds. (Savage rifles like Federal).

I have one and believe me... it is a tack driver!

well I only read the first page of this thread so I don't know what is on the other pages. My response to this thread is simply there isn't a "most accurate" rifle. All manufacturers and custom gun makers will throw out a POS once in a while or a super accurate rifle. But on the average you get what you pay for. I once owned a Rem 700 bull barreled 7-08 production rifle that I used for high powered shilloutte shooting that had produced groups as small as 3/8" at 200 yds and another sporter barrel .270 that shot 1/2" groups at 100 yds. I've also had them that shot no better than 2" groups @ 100. But from the 25 or 30 hunting rifles I've owned or owned I've had the most consistency out of the box with Savage or Tikka. (only experience with one Tikka)

this is why i only go to the range once a year
any shooting range is exactly like this thread
a load of bs that doesnt matter once youre in the forest

Why go once a year then?

haha i gotta shoot the 4570 a couple times man, might pull out a dime and make an adjustment on my scope and im outta there. i cant deal with people who so clearly fish with power bait in the summer, if you catch my drift. cornballers ya know?

yup, another guy who pulls the rifle out a week before season, makes sure its "minute of 5 gallon bucket" and goes to the woods.
RR

Good thing he use a big gun or he would be chasing a wounded deer all day.

you guys are just over thinking this, i shoot my rifle good enough to hit a deer in the lungs within a hundred yards every time. i only shoot it several times because how is my scope going to go out? it not like i throw it around. i only have to make a few minute adjustments every season.
for the most part i am a bowhunter and just dont pay as much attention to rifle hunting because it takes zero skill to kill deer with a rifle, absolutely zero skill.
point and click. as easy as hitting a button with your mouse.
i shoot my bow for fun because that doesn't cost me $1.50 every time i pull the trigger.
the simple fact is a deers vitals dont require moa accuraccy and thats all i use my gun for is killing deer and i am very good at it. i dont see any nice bucks on your profiles?
so answer me this. why should i try to shoot tighter groups? why? when all i do is shoot deer.