Do we need new rounds?
04-30-2008, 01:30 PM
#1
Giant Nontypical
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: IL
Posts: 6,575
Do we need new rounds?
What do you guys think, do we need new rounds to come out? if so which calibers have a void? My point is I think good rounds probably already exist, re releasing a good oldie might make more sense, though I wonder if any re-released round ever became a success that wasn't initially.
I can't think of many that we need, and I do think that most that do come out, just overlap already existing rounds.....
I really don't understand the .204's or the 17's maybe you guys can explain to me why I would need one more so than say a .22-250? or instead of a .22LR? or .22mag?
I would like to see a .416 Ruger.
I can't think of many that we need, and I do think that most that do come out, just overlap already existing rounds.....
I really don't understand the .204's or the 17's maybe you guys can explain to me why I would need one more so than say a .22-250? or instead of a .22LR? or .22mag?
I would like to see a .416 Ruger.
04-30-2008, 02:09 PM
#2
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Southeast Alabama
Posts: 1,625
RE: Do we need new rounds?
I don't think we need any new rounds but I like the Idea of rereleasingold rounds. The rounds we have today cover the everything under the sky and a few things above it so there really isn't a need for a new round.
I think companies need to begin trying to improve on the current ones available. Like Hornady did with the LeveRevolutions. They took a tried and true round that was getting old a outpreformed and gave it life again.
I think companies need to begin trying to improve on the current ones available. Like Hornady did with the LeveRevolutions. They took a tried and true round that was getting old a outpreformed and gave it life again.
04-30-2008, 04:22 PM
#3
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: va USA
Posts: 580
RE: Do we need new rounds?
I cant imagine any new round is really needed.
Most of the newer rounds hitting the market are driven more by marketing departments than hunters.After all there is so many ways to spin things on a 30-06, 308, 270 or any of themainstreamcalibers before every anglehas been covered a 1000 times over.
I do like the 270 WSM, 338 Federal and a few other of the newer ones that have come out recently but are they needed......that's up to each of us to decide.
However, I do like the idea of reintroducing some of the older rounds, with the new powders available today some may even become semi-popular.
Most of the newer rounds hitting the market are driven more by marketing departments than hunters.After all there is so many ways to spin things on a 30-06, 308, 270 or any of themainstreamcalibers before every anglehas been covered a 1000 times over.
I do like the 270 WSM, 338 Federal and a few other of the newer ones that have come out recently but are they needed......that's up to each of us to decide.
However, I do like the idea of reintroducing some of the older rounds, with the new powders available today some may even become semi-popular.
05-01-2008, 12:22 AM
#4
Fork Horn
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: NY METRO AREA
Posts: 294
RE: Do we need new rounds?
"Like Hornady did with the LeveRevolutions. They took a tried and true round that was getting old a outpreformed and gave it life again."
If you take a real close look at the numbers on the supposed "new" ammo you might realize that it is entirely a new marketing ploy allowing Hornady to tap into a huge market of older arms without providing any real improvement. Certainly nothing that could justify the price. Leverrevolution sells for 20-25 dollars for 20 versus 16 for standard 30-30 ammo (and at deer season they dump plain old corelok/powerpoint 30-30for 10-12 bucks a box at times).They fabricate some claim that plainold 30-30 was only good to 100-150 yds and the new revolution is good to 300 yds. Sure. Truth is the old 30-30 150grain load was always good for a avg point blank range of 200 ydsfor a avg shooter and the trajectory of the new revolution is barely more than that, maybe 225- 250, certainly not 300yds with acceptable bullet drop. The proof that hornady is fully aware of that is the fact that plain old 30-30 ammo comes in either 150 or 170 grain bullets and leverrevolution only comes in 160 grain. That way you can never actually compare the stuff apple to apples and they can continue to make these ridiculous claims comparing the 170 grain bullet to their 160 grainer.(compare 150g to their 160 grainers and you'll see an even greater "revolution".)And the supposed benefits ofpointy bullets are complete bull**. Do they really think the deer know the difference or that a pointed bullet makes a difference at 300 or less yds and at 30-30 velocities to boot? Don't fall for the marketing hype. Get the cheapest 30-30 ammo you can find and accept the fact that you got a woods gun and should limit your shotsto 200 yds max and will probably never shoot more than a 100yds anyway. TO throw your hard earned cash into their pockets for no actualbenefit makes no sense.AIn't no shot that you will taker with leverevolution ammo that can't be made with a plain old corelock. (also the supposed benefits in speed for the new ammo are out of a 24inch barrel and as we all know 99% of the 30-30 guns out there are lever actions with much shorter barrels. the supposed benefits can only be realized in a longer barreled rifle such as marlins new XLR.) What gets me the most is that none of the supposed "sportsman" magazines have pointed this out and just repeat the marketing hypein order to dupe their readers and keep the advertising money flowing. take care all.
If you take a real close look at the numbers on the supposed "new" ammo you might realize that it is entirely a new marketing ploy allowing Hornady to tap into a huge market of older arms without providing any real improvement. Certainly nothing that could justify the price. Leverrevolution sells for 20-25 dollars for 20 versus 16 for standard 30-30 ammo (and at deer season they dump plain old corelok/powerpoint 30-30for 10-12 bucks a box at times).They fabricate some claim that plainold 30-30 was only good to 100-150 yds and the new revolution is good to 300 yds. Sure. Truth is the old 30-30 150grain load was always good for a avg point blank range of 200 ydsfor a avg shooter and the trajectory of the new revolution is barely more than that, maybe 225- 250, certainly not 300yds with acceptable bullet drop. The proof that hornady is fully aware of that is the fact that plain old 30-30 ammo comes in either 150 or 170 grain bullets and leverrevolution only comes in 160 grain. That way you can never actually compare the stuff apple to apples and they can continue to make these ridiculous claims comparing the 170 grain bullet to their 160 grainer.(compare 150g to their 160 grainers and you'll see an even greater "revolution".)And the supposed benefits ofpointy bullets are complete bull**. Do they really think the deer know the difference or that a pointed bullet makes a difference at 300 or less yds and at 30-30 velocities to boot? Don't fall for the marketing hype. Get the cheapest 30-30 ammo you can find and accept the fact that you got a woods gun and should limit your shotsto 200 yds max and will probably never shoot more than a 100yds anyway. TO throw your hard earned cash into their pockets for no actualbenefit makes no sense.AIn't no shot that you will taker with leverevolution ammo that can't be made with a plain old corelock. (also the supposed benefits in speed for the new ammo are out of a 24inch barrel and as we all know 99% of the 30-30 guns out there are lever actions with much shorter barrels. the supposed benefits can only be realized in a longer barreled rifle such as marlins new XLR.) What gets me the most is that none of the supposed "sportsman" magazines have pointed this out and just repeat the marketing hypein order to dupe their readers and keep the advertising money flowing. take care all.
05-01-2008, 07:29 AM
#5
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Southeast Alabama
Posts: 1,625
RE: Do we need new rounds?
The regular corloktsare just fine and they do have a greater ability then many gave them credit for, I agree. But the LE's have improved the performance of the 30-30. I did much research before I bought them even found a few independent guy chronographing them out of marlins like mine and they still preformed better. I have killed several deer with the silver tips and corelokt and with the LE's. All the deer are dead but the LE's shot better from my rifle and gave me better trajectory without holdover. But that's just my opinion.
05-01-2008, 09:07 AM
#6
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location:
Posts: 6,471
RE: Do we need new rounds?
Like Hornady did with the LeveRevolutions. They took a tried and true round that was getting old a outpreformed and gave it life again."
Do you have experience with both types of ammo and guns or are you hypothesizing this? I owned BLRs which shoot the nice pointed bullets but I can't keep a gun that has an aluminum receiver no matter how much I try. I researched this round and when I get my XLR running I will report back on whether it was worth it or not. RIght now the SS and weatherproofing is already worth it
If you take a real close look at the numbers on the supposed "new" ammo you might realize that it is entirely a new marketing ploy allowing Hornady to tap into a huge market of older arms without providing any real improvement. Certainly nothing that could justify the price. Leverrevolution sells for 20-25 dollars for 20 versus 16 for standard 30-30 ammo (and at deer season they dump plain old corelok/powerpoint 30-30for 10-12 bucks a box at times).They fabricate some claim that plainold 30-30 was only good to 100-150 yds and the new revolution is good to 300 yds. Sure. Truth is the old 30-30 150grain load was always good for a avg point blank range of 200 ydsfor a avg shooter and the trajectory of the new revolution is barely more than that, maybe 225- 250, certainly not 300yds with acceptable bullet drop. The proof that hornady is fully aware of that is the fact that plain old 30-30 ammo comes in either 150 or 170 grain bullets and leverrevolution only comes in 160 grain. That way you can never actually compare the stuff apple to apples and they can continue to make these ridiculous claims comparing the 170 grain bullet to their 160 grainer.(compare 150g to their 160 grainers and you'll see an even greater "revolution".)And the supposed benefits ofpointy bullets are complete bull**. Do they really think the deer know the difference or that a pointed bullet makes a difference at 300 or less yds and at 30-30 velocities to boot? Don't fall for the marketing hype. Get the cheapest 30-30 ammo you can find and accept the fact that you got a woods gun and should limit your shotsto 200 yds max and will probably never shoot more than a 100yds anyway. TO throw your hard earned cash into their pockets for no actualbenefit makes no sense.AIn't no shot that you will taker with leverevolution ammo that can't be made with a plain old corelock. (also the supposed benefits in speed for the new ammo are out of a 24inch barrel and as we all know 99% of the 30-30 guns out there are lever actions with much shorter barrels. the supposed benefits can only be realized in a longer barreled rifle such as marlins new XLR.) What gets me the most is that none of the supposed "sportsman" magazines have pointed this out and just repeat the marketing hypein order to dupe their readers and keep the advertising money flowing. take care all.
05-01-2008, 10:56 AM
#8
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Rivesville, WV
Posts: 3,192
RE: Do we need new rounds?
I would like to see a new 30 caliber cartridge that would push a 200 grain Sierra Game King at 4,000fps. Now that would be a real ground hog rig. I would buy one tomorrow. I might even buy me a few of them there premium bullets for her.Tom.
05-01-2008, 12:45 PM
#9
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Taking the high ground.....
Posts: 277
RE: Do we need new rounds?
The gun trend lately parallels what takes place in our society as a whole...
In the day, 'twas nothing to hear of, or participate in, "wildcatting".....the "invention" of "new" rounds to fill a void, satisfy a need, or quell a want.
Much on the market now is the result of goodwildcatting.........
Now, with time constraints, lack of knowledge, the "Have it NOW" mentality, laziness, what have you, thus the reference to our society,it's much easier to just waitand see what the "factory" puts out andbuy a rifle in that chambering....thinking it the latest and greatest hammer made.
The market is driven accordingly.....
When was the last time you put a car together because you needed one.........I did it several times over, years ago, but now to hell with that, I'll just go sign a loan paper and buy one already made the way I want it.
There's enough on the books now to keep me broke and eating beenie weenies from now until never...so no, I don't give a rat's ass about "new" chamberings.
To each their own tho' and I'm just glad it's still possible in this Country to inhabit the "Gun Culture" that so intrigues me................
In the day, 'twas nothing to hear of, or participate in, "wildcatting".....the "invention" of "new" rounds to fill a void, satisfy a need, or quell a want.
Much on the market now is the result of goodwildcatting.........
Now, with time constraints, lack of knowledge, the "Have it NOW" mentality, laziness, what have you, thus the reference to our society,it's much easier to just waitand see what the "factory" puts out andbuy a rifle in that chambering....thinking it the latest and greatest hammer made.
The market is driven accordingly.....
When was the last time you put a car together because you needed one.........I did it several times over, years ago, but now to hell with that, I'll just go sign a loan paper and buy one already made the way I want it.
There's enough on the books now to keep me broke and eating beenie weenies from now until never...so no, I don't give a rat's ass about "new" chamberings.
To each their own tho' and I'm just glad it's still possible in this Country to inhabit the "Gun Culture" that so intrigues me................
05-01-2008, 01:55 PM
#10
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 232
RE: Do we need new rounds?
I would like to see 10 guage shotgun rounds loaded to significantly higher velocities so that the full potential of guns like the Remington SP-10 Magnum couldbe reached. I realize that10 guages were popular about 100 years ago and some of those guns are still around and they would be dangerous to shootwith loads that a modern robust shotgun like the SP-10could easily handle, but would it not be possible to put a warning label on the package that specifies what 10 guage models the ammunition can be safely used in. It is ridiculous that the 10 guage ammunition on the market hasthe same shot load and muzzle velocity as 12 guages with 3 1/2 magnum loads. The 10 guage does pattern better than the 12 guage with that load but it would also be nice to have both a better pattern and a heavier and faster load.