9mm bear bullet?
04-26-2007, 07:52 AM
#51
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 2,262
RE: 9mm bear bullet?
I've been on hand when lot's of bears have been killed and never saw or ever heard about the need to have a back-up weapon for black bears.I suppose if the almost impossible incident happened where a wounded black bear turned on you and attacked,you could always drop the 30-06 anduse the 9mm to put yourself out of your misery.
If a bear did in fact attack,and you emptied your rifle,you'd be history by the time you had a chance to respond with a handgun.A 9mm is totaly inadequate to use asa back-up weapon for bear.
If a bear did in fact attack,and you emptied your rifle,you'd be history by the time you had a chance to respond with a handgun.A 9mm is totaly inadequate to use asa back-up weapon for bear.
04-26-2007, 06:34 PM
#52
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 28
RE: 9mm bear bullet?
He lived, the german didn't.They were high in the Italian Alps in January or Febuary.Probably below zero.When I was kid he still had them bullets and the overcoat.The fabric was really thick.There were small tears but no holes.Below zero it was probably real,real stiff.
04-30-2007, 01:08 PM
#53
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Wy
Posts: 9,619
RE: 9mm bear bullet?
Good to hear your shopping for a larger backup
I think id use the 9mm X 57 Mauser( hard to find?) with a 250-280 gr bullet.
Just curious of the details- do yyall know?
How many times did the statetrooperwho shot the bear in Nj hit it- how manyin the vitals? How close was he shooting& how far did the bullets penatrate the bear?
I'll be shopping for a larger backup in the near future so I can keep after the bad bruin with more confidence in my sidearm. I'll keep the 9mmfor homefront security and practice.Thanksall for your input.
So if you only had a 9mmfor backup and were after wild boar, which bullet would youuse?
So if you only had a 9mmfor backup and were after wild boar, which bullet would youuse?
Just curious of the details- do yyall know?
How many times did the statetrooperwho shot the bear in Nj hit it- how manyin the vitals? How close was he shooting& how far did the bullets penatrate the bear?
05-02-2007, 07:29 PM
#55
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location:
Posts: 1,290
RE: 9mm bear bullet?
Heh, heh. Thread won't die. I thought the New Jersey troopers were using 45 GAPS?
As far as I know, in the mid-bores the .357 magnum is the only round historically that has taken bear. It was the only magnum round available for quite awhile, and was up to 40K psi with large rifle primers. On penetrating hard objects, it is true that some fairly respectable pistol rounds are limited in penetrating, eg, 1949 Chevy car doors, thick oak, ironwood, etc, but most perps aren't wearing body armor made of that. Also, the Navy figured out looooong ago that cannon ball and grape shot bounced off of oak. However, it was generally speaking very hard on sailors.
As far as I know, in the mid-bores the .357 magnum is the only round historically that has taken bear. It was the only magnum round available for quite awhile, and was up to 40K psi with large rifle primers. On penetrating hard objects, it is true that some fairly respectable pistol rounds are limited in penetrating, eg, 1949 Chevy car doors, thick oak, ironwood, etc, but most perps aren't wearing body armor made of that. Also, the Navy figured out looooong ago that cannon ball and grape shot bounced off of oak. However, it was generally speaking very hard on sailors.
05-02-2007, 10:35 PM
#56
Site Bouncer
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Illinois
Posts: 4,099
RE: 9mm bear bullet?
I'm glad you didn't have to find out how the 9mm would have faired against a black bear. If I only had that firearm I would bring it too (along with bear spray) I think the combo would/could save your life.
As far as bullets not penetraiting heavy clothing I believe it. My father served in Korea and the US GI's had problems with the M1 Carbine's .30 carbine round penetrating the heavy winter coats of the North Koreans and Chinese troops. This of course was at longer distances than what was describedbut they had problems none the less.
Now, as far as a bear is concerned..........
Way back before I was born......it was the late spring of 1963 my father was in the far north woods of Wisconsin, at night (no lights in the camp) he had shot a snapping turtle eariler in the day with a Ruger .22mag Single Six and hadthe turtleoutside to dry out the shell. The guts were in a garbage can right below it (the shell was on the roof of a low garage) and some of the blood was dripping onto the cans.
Well he was making his way up a hill to his cabin (approx 75yds away) with the Ruger slung over his shoulder. As he rounded the corner of the garagehe saw two sets of eyes in the moon light and knew right there and then what it was. Two cubs were licking the blood off of the can and trying to get into it for the turtle endtrails.
No sooner did this all register when he heard the un-mistakable sound of a bear running at him her claws digging at the gravel as she approached at full speed! He started to back up toward the lake and reached for his only chance, his sixgun on his hip..........it wasn't there, it was slung over his shoulder! As he fumbled to release the leather strap from the hammer to free the pistol the bear was close enough to smell. Instinctively he pulled the pistol pointed it in the direction of the sound and smell, eared back the hammer on the Rugerand pulled the trigger.
BLAM! the muzzle flash showed the erie sight of a huge sow closing in on him. The bear rolled in font of him only to get to her feet and continue her charge....BLAM!.....BLAM! he fired again and again, the bear rolledbut again got up. By this time he found himself sliding down the steep bank down to the waters edge. His back bumped up against a big tree that was growning in the middle of the bank, as he slid to the water side of the trunk he heard the bear slam into the top side. As the bear started to reach around the tree with her massive razor sharp claws hell bent on the destruction of the person causing her pain, My father reached around the other side of thetree, put the pistol to the bear and BLAM! let another.22mag round intoher.
Knowing he was running out of realestate (and ammo)he knew what he had to do. He dug the handle of the pistol into the ground and pulled himself back up the bank not knowing if the bear was right on his heels or dead. As he got to the top and started to make his way to the cabin to retrieve his 44-40 rifle, a person with a flash light runs up to him to ask what was going on. It was a truck driver who earlier in the dayhad brought in food and supplies for the upcomming camping season for all of the kids who would be arriving at the camp along with the rest of the staff.
Explaining what happened my father asked the driver to get into his truck and aim the lights onto the tree in the middle of the bank. The driver did and upon his return from the cabin (with his rifle) found that the mother had rounded up the cubs and treed them above her. She was at about 15ft up and the cubs slightly higher.
Knowing what he had to do a well placed shot sent the bear tumbling down the tree and down the bank below the lights of the truck into the pitch black darkness of the waters edge. Not wanting any more excitement for the evening and very sure a well placed shot was made it was decided to "investigate" in the morning.
After first light sure enough the bear was right where she fell by the waters edge.After a few calls to the game warden the whole issue was figured out with no charges or citations issued. It was deemed (as it should have been) an act of self defence.
The cubs hung around camp for a few days then wandered of to fend for themselves.
Sorry for being so long winded but I just wanted to share a story of someone using a much more underpowered pistol than a 9mm to protect himself from a bear attack. While neither round will ever be used by me as a backup gun, I'd much rather have a 9mm or even a .22 mag than nothing at all.
As far as bullets not penetraiting heavy clothing I believe it. My father served in Korea and the US GI's had problems with the M1 Carbine's .30 carbine round penetrating the heavy winter coats of the North Koreans and Chinese troops. This of course was at longer distances than what was describedbut they had problems none the less.
Now, as far as a bear is concerned..........
Way back before I was born......it was the late spring of 1963 my father was in the far north woods of Wisconsin, at night (no lights in the camp) he had shot a snapping turtle eariler in the day with a Ruger .22mag Single Six and hadthe turtleoutside to dry out the shell. The guts were in a garbage can right below it (the shell was on the roof of a low garage) and some of the blood was dripping onto the cans.
Well he was making his way up a hill to his cabin (approx 75yds away) with the Ruger slung over his shoulder. As he rounded the corner of the garagehe saw two sets of eyes in the moon light and knew right there and then what it was. Two cubs were licking the blood off of the can and trying to get into it for the turtle endtrails.
No sooner did this all register when he heard the un-mistakable sound of a bear running at him her claws digging at the gravel as she approached at full speed! He started to back up toward the lake and reached for his only chance, his sixgun on his hip..........it wasn't there, it was slung over his shoulder! As he fumbled to release the leather strap from the hammer to free the pistol the bear was close enough to smell. Instinctively he pulled the pistol pointed it in the direction of the sound and smell, eared back the hammer on the Rugerand pulled the trigger.
BLAM! the muzzle flash showed the erie sight of a huge sow closing in on him. The bear rolled in font of him only to get to her feet and continue her charge....BLAM!.....BLAM! he fired again and again, the bear rolledbut again got up. By this time he found himself sliding down the steep bank down to the waters edge. His back bumped up against a big tree that was growning in the middle of the bank, as he slid to the water side of the trunk he heard the bear slam into the top side. As the bear started to reach around the tree with her massive razor sharp claws hell bent on the destruction of the person causing her pain, My father reached around the other side of thetree, put the pistol to the bear and BLAM! let another.22mag round intoher.
Knowing he was running out of realestate (and ammo)he knew what he had to do. He dug the handle of the pistol into the ground and pulled himself back up the bank not knowing if the bear was right on his heels or dead. As he got to the top and started to make his way to the cabin to retrieve his 44-40 rifle, a person with a flash light runs up to him to ask what was going on. It was a truck driver who earlier in the dayhad brought in food and supplies for the upcomming camping season for all of the kids who would be arriving at the camp along with the rest of the staff.
Explaining what happened my father asked the driver to get into his truck and aim the lights onto the tree in the middle of the bank. The driver did and upon his return from the cabin (with his rifle) found that the mother had rounded up the cubs and treed them above her. She was at about 15ft up and the cubs slightly higher.
Knowing what he had to do a well placed shot sent the bear tumbling down the tree and down the bank below the lights of the truck into the pitch black darkness of the waters edge. Not wanting any more excitement for the evening and very sure a well placed shot was made it was decided to "investigate" in the morning.
After first light sure enough the bear was right where she fell by the waters edge.After a few calls to the game warden the whole issue was figured out with no charges or citations issued. It was deemed (as it should have been) an act of self defence.
The cubs hung around camp for a few days then wandered of to fend for themselves.
Sorry for being so long winded but I just wanted to share a story of someone using a much more underpowered pistol than a 9mm to protect himself from a bear attack. While neither round will ever be used by me as a backup gun, I'd much rather have a 9mm or even a .22 mag than nothing at all.
05-03-2007, 06:50 AM
#57
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: PA
Posts: 2,313
RE: 9mm bear bullet?
We are going turkey hunting this weekend where there are alot of bears so with all the helpful info that every has gave im going to take my 9mm as a backup gun if i do happen to run into a bear.Not really. I just always take my KBI 9mm up the mountains with me when i hunt for coyotes and smaller problems. The bears always run from us.
Not really. I just always take my KBI 9mm up the mountains with me when i hunt for coyotes and smaller problems. The bears always run from us.
05-03-2007, 11:02 AM
#58
Site Bouncer
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Illinois
Posts: 4,099
RE: 9mm bear bullet?
I forgot to add that my father only ended up needing 20 stitches in his left leg and 4 on his right arm. His clothes were ripped and other minor cuts and scrapes but all in all he came through the ordeal fairly unscathed. You can still see the scars to this day on his leg.
The bear was taken by the warden where it was weighed and measured. I can't remember the exact numbers but I know she was over 6ft and weighed in at close to 400lbs which is very big for a Wisconsin sow bear especially in the late spring/early summer.
Years later (mid 70's) he again had to kill a rogue bear that was comming into camp. This bear was very big and very old. He had scared it off on two other occasions with a shot gun but the bear kept returning. This time was different because it was during the camping season and the camp was full of kids. He phoned the warden (same one) to inform him of the situation.The warden told my dad that they would send someone out to dispatch the bear but if came into camp before they could get to it, it was ok to kill the bear.
Well the bear came back later that day at just about dusk, I remember like it was yesterday my father running out towards the bear with a shotgun in one hand and a Ruger .44mag flattop strapped to his hip. Our dog (German Shepherd) was going crazy trying to get at the bear. He (the dog) had treed the bear the day before only to have the bear come down the tree and attack the dog but the shepard was too fast for the bear and was able to tree him again. (the dog weighed in at about 135lbs....big shepherd) My oldest brother was holding back the dog at my father's request while we all stood back and watched what unfolded.
There's my father standing about 25yds away from this bear who is growling and poping his jaws at him, circling to his left the bear was posturing for an attack! My father raised the shotgun and fired over the bears head in an effort to scare him offlike he had in the days preceding........nothing, again he shot only this time right in front of the bear causing dirt and rocks to fly up into the bears face again nothing, the bears resolve was unshakeable.
The bear had decided to make this afternoon his last stand. He started toward my father, my dad,being a hunter himself and having served in the army as a front line infantryman for three years in Korea was no stranger to danger.Having faced much more difficult and life threatening moments in the war and from his first bear attack, he was as calm as could be. He dropped the shotgun and drew his pistol. This time though his weapon was very much up to the task at hand, and with one shot he dropped the bear where he stood.
I was in awe.......
The bear was taken by the warden where it was weighed and measured. I can't remember the exact numbers but I know she was over 6ft and weighed in at close to 400lbs which is very big for a Wisconsin sow bear especially in the late spring/early summer.
Years later (mid 70's) he again had to kill a rogue bear that was comming into camp. This bear was very big and very old. He had scared it off on two other occasions with a shot gun but the bear kept returning. This time was different because it was during the camping season and the camp was full of kids. He phoned the warden (same one) to inform him of the situation.The warden told my dad that they would send someone out to dispatch the bear but if came into camp before they could get to it, it was ok to kill the bear.
Well the bear came back later that day at just about dusk, I remember like it was yesterday my father running out towards the bear with a shotgun in one hand and a Ruger .44mag flattop strapped to his hip. Our dog (German Shepherd) was going crazy trying to get at the bear. He (the dog) had treed the bear the day before only to have the bear come down the tree and attack the dog but the shepard was too fast for the bear and was able to tree him again. (the dog weighed in at about 135lbs....big shepherd) My oldest brother was holding back the dog at my father's request while we all stood back and watched what unfolded.
There's my father standing about 25yds away from this bear who is growling and poping his jaws at him, circling to his left the bear was posturing for an attack! My father raised the shotgun and fired over the bears head in an effort to scare him offlike he had in the days preceding........nothing, again he shot only this time right in front of the bear causing dirt and rocks to fly up into the bears face again nothing, the bears resolve was unshakeable.
The bear had decided to make this afternoon his last stand. He started toward my father, my dad,being a hunter himself and having served in the army as a front line infantryman for three years in Korea was no stranger to danger.Having faced much more difficult and life threatening moments in the war and from his first bear attack, he was as calm as could be. He dropped the shotgun and drew his pistol. This time though his weapon was very much up to the task at hand, and with one shot he dropped the bear where he stood.
I was in awe.......
05-03-2007, 07:39 PM
#59
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location:
Posts: 106
RE: 9mm bear bullet?
BigJ - Great stories, great writing. You've got talent son. Thanks for sharin' with the crowd. Pretty cool to have such memories of your father saving the day against a nasty bruin with a hot iron.
05-03-2007, 11:01 PM
#60
Site Bouncer
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Illinois
Posts: 4,099
RE: 9mm bear bullet?
Thanks Mud,
My dad is a great guy and he was/is a great role model for me. While not a bigperson in statureat only 5'6" (I must get my size from my moms side.....or the milk man) he is larger than life. He has been through it all and seen it all. He was born in 1929 and grew up in the depression, he had nothing....nothing, his dad left when he was 2 and his mom died when he was 9. He grew up on the south side of Chicago and lived at a privately fundedall boys military school for underpriviligedkids, most from broken home families. He didn't finish highschool till he was 21 years old because he worked half a day on the school's farm. After he left he attended college but was called to service in 1950. After returning from the war he finished school and worked as an engineer for a few years.
He then went back to the school, this time to work and to give back to the place that had essentially saved his life from one on the streets. He started as a drill instructor, camp director and coach of several of the school's sports teams. He eventuallymoved up to director of student activities. He retired this year after 50 years of service to the school and having been at the school for all but about 15 years of his entire life! He has touched the lives of so many kidsit's impossible to even keep track of them but he would remember (and still does) every one. When I was youngerstill living at home we would get visitors quite often from ex students asking for him just to say hello and thanks. You could always tell the older ones as they would ask if "Sarge" was home.
Upon retiring word got out of his life and he was honored on the floor of the US House of Representatives with a speech from an Illinois Representative. The speech is part of the Congressional Recordof the 109th Congress Second Session and will forever be archived. I can't even begin to tell you how proud of him I amor howlucky I am to have him as a father. My mom and he never missed a game when I was in highschool,college or the NFL. They bothwere great role models formyself and my two older brothers throught our lives and still are even to this day. He was strict when he had to be but would give you the shirt off of his back.....he's that kind of man.
I love to listen to his stories even if I have heard them before, the things he has done and seen are just incredible and I will never grow tired of them.
Well I have officially hi-jacked this thread and I apologize.
My dad is a great guy and he was/is a great role model for me. While not a bigperson in statureat only 5'6" (I must get my size from my moms side.....or the milk man
) he is larger than life. He has been through it all and seen it all. He was born in 1929 and grew up in the depression, he had nothing....nothing, his dad left when he was 2 and his mom died when he was 9. He grew up on the south side of Chicago and lived at a privately fundedall boys military school for underpriviligedkids, most from broken home families. He didn't finish highschool till he was 21 years old because he worked half a day on the school's farm. After he left he attended college but was called to service in 1950. After returning from the war he finished school and worked as an engineer for a few years. He then went back to the school, this time to work and to give back to the place that had essentially saved his life from one on the streets. He started as a drill instructor, camp director and coach of several of the school's sports teams. He eventuallymoved up to director of student activities. He retired this year after 50 years of service to the school and having been at the school for all but about 15 years of his entire life! He has touched the lives of so many kidsit's impossible to even keep track of them but he would remember (and still does) every one. When I was youngerstill living at home we would get visitors quite often from ex students asking for him just to say hello and thanks. You could always tell the older ones as they would ask if "Sarge" was home.
Upon retiring word got out of his life and he was honored on the floor of the US House of Representatives with a speech from an Illinois Representative. The speech is part of the Congressional Recordof the 109th Congress Second Session and will forever be archived. I can't even begin to tell you how proud of him I amor howlucky I am to have him as a father. My mom and he never missed a game when I was in highschool,college or the NFL. They bothwere great role models formyself and my two older brothers throught our lives and still are even to this day. He was strict when he had to be but would give you the shirt off of his back.....he's that kind of man.
I love to listen to his stories even if I have heard them before, the things he has done and seen are just incredible and I will never grow tired of them.
Well I have officially hi-jacked this thread and I apologize.