Heh, heh. Thread won't die. I thought the New Jersey troopers were using 45 GAPS?

As far as I know, in the mid-bores the .357 magnum is the only round historically that has taken bear. It was the only magnum round available for quite awhile, and was up to 40K psi with large rifle primers. On penetrating hard objects, it is true that some fairly respectable pistol rounds are limited in penetrating, eg, 1949 Chevy car doors, thick oak, ironwood, etc, but most perps aren't wearing body armor made of that. Also, the Navy figured out looooong ago that cannon ball and grape shot bounced off of oak. However, it was generally speaking very hard on sailors.