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Old 09-28-2005, 07:22 AM
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Bowling Green, KY
Posts: 73
Default Frustrated

I am in the midst of a huge revelation and need someone to either confirm my no reality or slap it silly. \

I recently bought a Winchester Model 70 Ultimate Shadow in .270wsm. I had seen the gun, liked the way it looked and thought it would be a fun gun to have. I bought bases and rings, a Pentax Lightseeker scope and would have been out the door for just over a grand. I like the way it looks and shoulders. Then, I try the trigger. It has got to be the worst trigger I have ever felt – bar none. I felt like I was pulling a shotgun. So, $100 later I am having a timney trigger installed. Gun cost and Trigger are now about $700.

The Dilemma:

Would I not have been better off with a Savage?

They are some of the best shooting guns available. While the Winchester is a “prettier” gun, I could have bought a new quality stock for the Savage for $200 or less, already had the accutrigger, probably saved $100, and had as good a shooting gun as the Winchester.

Why can Savage, Tikka and a few others provide a suitable trigger, while the Winchester’s of the world cannot? I understand the liability issues, but if that was the sole issue, the industry would have effectively standardized the trigger. One would think there is a cost-benefit analysis that examines the benefit of selling more guns, as good shooting than by name alone. It seems to me that, if people keep their factory triggers, Winchester may begin developing a bad accuracy reputation.

Sorry for teh length. I just had to post

KYFRED is offline  
Old 09-28-2005, 07:27 AM
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Roanoke, VA
Posts: 730
Default RE: Frustrated

Should have tried the trigger first before purchasing it. You can own a cadillac to drive from point A to point B, or you can own an ******. Both will get you there, but the looks, feel, and price are different.
Criggster is offline  
Old 09-28-2005, 08:47 AM
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Bowling Green, KY
Posts: 73
Default RE: Frustrated

I ordered the gun. The local gun shop did not have it in stock. I guess I could have tried teh trigger, but do not think it is right for teh local gun shop to ship a gun in special order, only to have to bear the return shipping. If I pay shipping, I am that much further behind. - Just venting.

I'd like to know what others are looking at when comparing price and performance.WhileI am not hurting, I purchase a gun or two a year and would like to be a better buyer.

KYFRED is offline  
Old 09-28-2005, 09:06 AM
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 226
Default RE: Frustrated

On mass-produced guns, unfortunately, most of the manufacturers do not provide a great trigger. At least, if the trigger is adjustable (like the Remington), the feel can usually be improved to an acceptable level. In the case of the Remington, the trigger is quite good (IMO)....though I do not like the safety design. I was under the impression that the Winchester trigger is fully adjustable.... is this not so ? (I've never owned one.) All of the rifle makers adjust their triggers to high settings, because of safety (and therefore, liability) concerns. I suppose that they feel that most shooters will just take what they get....which I think is probably the case.
gorse is offline  
Old 09-28-2005, 07:59 PM
Boone & Crockett
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Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 10,679
Default RE: Frustrated

Not to add salt to the wound but you could have saved $50 - $80 over that Timney and had a gunsmith do a trigger job on that model 70. The model 70's trigger is a simple trigger toadjust, polish up, and shave a little to turn it into a trigger with a pull of only 2.5 pounds, no take up and no over travel.

The model 70 is one of the best rifles made IMHO. You did good choosing it over the Savage.

Yes the model 70's trigger is adjustable for weight and over travel but not for take up. A simple filing in a jig followed by a polishing and that is easily taken care of.
bigbulls is offline  
Old 09-28-2005, 08:23 PM
Giant Nontypical
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Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Saskatchewan Canada
Posts: 6,921
Default RE: Frustrated

Hey don't feel bad I can't recall an off the shelf rifle or used one I purchased that didn't require a trigger job for my likes. I however in most cases went the route big bulls describes and had a smith touch it up to a crisp clean pull. The important thing is feel for a rifle, often little things must be done to tweak into a great rifle(trigger, bedding, etc) just to say you most certainly aren't alone in this regard.

Enjoy and hope this baby prints for yeah!

skeeter 7MM is offline  
Old 09-28-2005, 09:12 PM
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Baileysville, WV
Posts: 2,925
Default RE: Frustrated

Yeah same here. I cant stand to shoot em when I get them until the trigger job has been done. Usually 2.5-3 for me. I can understand why they set the triggers so high and really dont mind it as long as they are adjustable. The 700 triggers can be made pretty darn good with a little tweaking.
Doe Dumper is offline  
Old 09-30-2005, 07:36 AM
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 15
Default RE: Frustrated

"what others are looking at when comparing price and performance"

As to this question, here's how I advise my customers.

If you are interested in buying a rifle for a once or twice a year hunting trip, buy the better quality commercialrifles - Winchester, Remmington, Browning, Howa, Tika etc and have agunsmith or me tailor it to your needs. Adjusting the trigger, trimming the butt pad, setting up the scope,choosing the right ammo etc. You will be happy with this life time investment and proud to own a well crafted and pleasing gun. All areaccurate enough to take the game you are after.

If you are wanting a rifle to throw in the back of the pickup, are interested in accuracyfor accuracy's sake andplace looks at a lower priority - then the Savage isfor you. They are accurate, functional and dependable but estheticsaren't even a consideration.They are not the rifle you pull out of the safe toshow off toyour friends.It takes extensive work and expense to make the Savageappeal to the eye.After market stocks, reblueing, action smoothing,fine fitting all take time and money.

If you are interested in a highly accurate, very pleasing, highly crafted, beautiful heirloom wood, finely finished completly functional and a real pleasure to own - spring fora Cooper or aKimberany number of semi custom offerings. They truely arelife time investments.

I would be very upset with the gunshop that sold me the Winchester. Like other have said, the Winchester trigger is adjustable and tunalbe and is completely satisfactory in a hunting rifle. Their is no need to install an after market trigger unless you are wanting the highest level of prescision but then the potential for this rifle is limited.

gkaraff is offline  
Old 10-03-2005, 08:05 PM
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 111
Default RE: Frustrated

I bought the cheap Winchester Super Shadow 270 WSM, has a very good trigger, shot 1/2 to 3/4" groups right out of the box........$400
Ark City Larry is offline  
Old 10-03-2005, 08:38 PM
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 15
Default RE: Frustrated

Very goog choice

Have you decided on a scope?

gkaraff is offline  

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