An explaination regarding the off season forum
 

Just a thought that an explaination would be nice to give to your customers.

It's gone indefinitely.

If you've been in there anytime in the recent past, you'll know why.

While certainly there were users who used that forum in a fun and respectful way, there were simply too many users who could not.

I understand things like that are your decision and I can live with it. But I would like to respectfully make a suggestion or comment. Would it not be better to punish the individual offender(s) instead of the whole lot? I kind of enjoyed reading the posts and talking up a little bit of sports from time to time.

I'm not trying to bash your decision just hoping you may eventually reconsider.

+1 I shung out on the political side mostly, hunting is getting old for me. However, the off season I did enjoy to visit and post from time to time.

The problem with just banning the 'trouble makers' was that the mods were trying to be nice and only ban a the worst... but those had their fanboys who felt it necessary to then constantly go after the moderators. So then a couple more would get nixed and then the next wave of fanboys would cry about it.
I don't think they even really cared about the banned members they'd just rather cause trouble.

The Off-season coming back depends on how many posts like Jeepkid show up vs. the posts made by VaHunter and Fieldmouse. If I see enough maturity and reasonable posting I might bring it back.

All it takes is a few bad eggs to spoil it for everyone. If you have something to argue about with a Mod, Its best to take it Private PM so only you will be responsible for your actions.

Things are slow around here and that tends to get under peoples skin and thats when things start to happen.

The best option is to keep it down for a bit until tempers cool down and heads get put back on straight.

Hopefully others will learn from this..... We lost a great area on this forum, something i feel was the heart and soul of this forum.

Thank you Christine, I guess we'll have to do a better job at policing our own. I on the other hand am sometimes not that good in doing that whiling pushing peoples buttons. However, I will do my best.

I was wondering what had happened. Arguing with a Mod is bit like arguing with a host of a radio call-in show. They will always get the last word.

well at least now i know,even though it stinks. hpoefully it'll be back soon!

I'd like to also request it come back, the off season forum was probably the most enjoyable forum, especially during the "non hunting" times of the year. Yes there were some trouble makers, but it was a minority. Here's hoping we can get it back.

I think a cooling off period would be ... therapeutic. If/when it comes back, I would personally like to see thread locked instead of deleted. That way, the mod to lock it can provide an explanation. The "mystery" of disappearing threads works some people up. Plus, a lock can be temporary. Might make people a little happier, and happier people are less likely to make the inflammatory posts.

I'm on other forums, and there are systems warning 1-> warning, 2-> one month suspension,-> warning 1-> warning 2-> one month suspension, perma-ban. The mods check a box and the consequences are carried out automatically. Not much more work than deleting a thread. But the members see what's happening. Offending posts are edited, and the official warning is announced. No mystery. Not that I want to tell HNI how to run things, but one specific forum I belong to (an online game forum) runs very smoothly.

Also, there has been a tradition of being a little more lax in the off season. Maybe that time should end?

I have a different take on what you refer to as "fan boy." Because this forum is an online community, members develop a sense of ownership. It's not ownership in the sense of property rights, but a sense or feeling that goes along with belonging. When someone is kicked out, it violates that sense, and it effects others -- friends -- as well. So the way discipline is handled is critical.

In some cases, dissennsion may be unavoidable, like the way people trash a house just before they are foreclosed.

But if everybody sees a ban coming from a mile away, maybe the constant dissension of the onlookers/friends would be avoided. Instead of "YOU BANNED OLD JOE! ARRRRRGGGG!!!" people would say, "Well, hot-headed Old Joe got himself banned (again), LOL!"

Nobody will be happy all the time. I know I'm not, but there's no need to go into my little pet issue right now. I probably wouldn't ever get into it with an overall happier environment.

So I think the Off Season needs a cool down and a reboot, where we all start over happier, and the negative threads get locked right away with an upbeat message from the mod.

Maybe I'm too hopeful here? I just like what we have (had).

Hit the nail on the head! People simply forget that it's not their house fail to understand, or maybe just fail to accept that. While it's unfortunate to have a few ruin in for the many, sometimes it's MUCH easier to simply end the party completely rather than just toss out a few rowdies.
sad part is those that are to blame probably don't see it that way.

E2 I do agree somewhat with most of what you said, but there is more going on....
Some of the "fanboy" is true also....
I've been here for a long time and I've seen some things that I wish I hadn't.

I've seen people try to take advantage of the moderation team, and I've seen mods abuse their authority. It goes both ways. Unfortunately those mods who abuse their authority, and those who abuse the system(ordinary members) are the reason this has happened.
I remember when a mod would delete a post and give a warning, and that would be the end of it. But now it's gotten to the point where a mod does that and the poster cries about it and his/her fans cry also. Sorta like an Obama supporter. Wah, wah, wah...SO...the mods would just kick a field goal and delete the whole thing, no 'splainin' for the action...just to avoid all the grief from the "fanboy"

If only it was like it was ten years ago....
You get out of line, and a mod would say something, and you reply "sorry" and that'd be the end of it.
Now some people cry like 6 year olds...includng one or two of the mods, but that may be because some of the mods may not be PC enough withthe PMs they give people. I've seen some that basically said your on thin ice you do it once more and you are gone permanently!

I thought...what? my average is 1.32 posts per day??? and someone wants to do a permaban? Sure this is where attitude comes to play....

Instead of threatening someone, maybe there should be a warning? there is a difference between a warning and a threat.

Yes, I have seen some of the mods delete a post and give a warning, (only once for me, about 6 or 7 years ago) but I have seen a threat of a permaban (for me also, less than a year ago with no other warning...came right out of the blue...)

It's like someone getting right up in yer face, if'n ya know what I sayin'...
It's like a flame war, and only one of you will win, but ya gotsta at least stand up...

Anyway, I don't think many will see this post as it will be deleted and I might be permantly gone into the WWW.COM

its not always bad apples in a basket that cause the problem, sometimes its a basket with a bad handle;)...while i'll agree that there were things and post that were going crazy in the off-season forum...there were also situations that were/are being handled in a terrible manner...just so the moderator on that post realizes i have not ever had a problem with him (LBR), but there is a rouge moderator that is simply detroying this site...just like this post below:

those are very taunting post and very un-professional..it is your site, run it like you desire, while it is/has been a very good site it is not the only site on the web....i am a memeber on several that i frequent (about 10) and this site is middle of the road for me at this time (still a great site) it used to be my first stop in the morning:biggrin:, but if it continues in the direction its headed i believe you'll continue to see a decline in new membership or activity as a result... i hope thats not the case, but time will tell...

now if i have offended anyone i assure you that was not my intention, but if you look at a time-line of when these actions started happening i believe you'll find out what the primary detractor has been

if we want to play the "blame game" lets all make sure we get our fair share of the pie;)


What do you do if a forum moderator becomes hurtful to your forums rather than helpful? A WebmasterWorld thread asks this question based on negative actions performed by a moderator of his forum that resulted in loss of membership. Consequently, he also demoted the moderator.Some people just take the power trip for personal gain. This quote by another member is so true for this instance:Appointing moderators can be a pretty sticky situation if they are biased in such a way that it is destructive rather than helpful.Forum discussion at WebmasterWorld.

Christine - Please add me as one who hopes the Off Season Forum reopens....Jimmy S

Maybe my post was too long, lol!

1) time off is probably good.
2) moderation to be objective, not subjective.
3) treat members (even when they are wrong) like they are important.
4) eliminate the mystery of disappearing posts.
5) to members -- make a fresh start with a positive attitude.
Thank you for your time!

Wow... Off Season is where it all began...Too bad..

FYI, I am reading these. I just don't have the time to craft a post by post response right now.

I am taking into consideration all the posts/pm's and emails. Most are well reasoned and I appreciate it.

Two points I would like to make really quickly:

1) Moderating, by it's very nature, is going to be subjective. Some mods simply have thicker skin than others. This is neither good nor bad.. it just is. Some issues will really push certain moderator's buttons while others couldn't care less. Some will find a photo 'too racy', others will delete threads for content when I might just scratch my head and wonder what the fuss is about. The only thing we hope for is that we can find some semblance of consistency... which we are working on.

M T Hands, "Quote:

If it comes back that is...
Quote:

Nope. A couple bad apples ruined it for everyone else. The Admins had enough of it. "

This is an example of the subjectiveness. I don't really see a problem with this answer. However, I guess given some past history with a moderator it could be taken as 'snippy'.

2) Sometimes a thread or post (or user) is deleted without an explanation because none is needed. By the time a problem gets to the point where I have to step in, I am likely to employ a scorched earth policy rather than reading through 50 pages of posts and users' histories. This is why users need to work with the moderators a little better and avoid it becoming an admin issue. Having said that.. we are going try to give you guys/gals better feedback about why/what we're doing. This whip cracking is going both ways on this.

If you have a moderation question for the admins please use [email protected] .

Thanks!

HNI_Christine, thank you:happy0001: and thats all we could ask.........

"Agreed, but something like, Thread locked, rule #3."

Whether rule #3 truly applies may be debatable(the subjective part), but everyone knows why the thread was locked (the objective part).

Here's where it works in HNI's favor. Someone starts a new thread about the locked one, it gets deleted or locked with, "PM mod directly for this discussion." or something like that. If the PM leads to a resolution, the the thread could be unlocked, if the truth warrants it.

Wow! I am stunned, and appalled, that after all the years I have been here at HNI that "Off Season" has come to this. Almost too shocked for words, but I'll squeeze a few out. Most of you know me to some degree. From my few postings over the years, or from help I've given with pic posting, or various internet issues to help navigate the site better. I am probably one of the more lenient mods on the site. My tolerance level to the off season lunacy is somewhat higher than some. I am more apt to let something slide, as long as certain rules are not crossed, but do have my breaking point. I have admonished a number of folks over the years and have chased through the wee hours a handful who incessantly created new handles to get back in after a ban. I understand that when hunting season is over, folks have less to do. Attendance picks up, attitudes tend to flare, and wild hairs seems to grow. It has happened every year since I have been here. There have been a few major flareups over the years where members received bans and others followed of their own accord. Most ended up coming back, and some were banned for life. On the internet, as in any walk of life, there has to be a guideline of behavior that is acceptable. In the walk of life it may change given the situation, (ie. Adult only gatherings). Whereas, on the internet we have to realize that we adults are setting the example for the children that are coming here to learn from us. Even with the moderators, every one is different and will do their job as they perceive it within the set guidelines. Some will come across in a more acceptable fashion than others. Some will be more liked than others. That is life.

I have very much enjoyed my years here at HNI. Watching some of the kids grow to become adults. And the older folks getting even older. lolol I have met some of you at Gatherings, and some that have come to hunt with our company. Creating lifelong friendships. All enjoyable experiences.

Not having the Off Season Forum is like removing the Family Room or Den from your home, and only having a Formal Living Room to relax in. It has always been a comfortable place to come to, kick off your shoes, tell the joke of the day, or the trials of your life. A place that was fun to be and share time with your internet family. There will always be those that will push the limits, be it on the road breaking laws, or the net breaking rules.

We all need to work together to keep HNI an informative, fun place, for all to enjoy, relax, and learn.

Well said deerdust. We need the off season bck up and running. I have a wife to give away and it doesn't even have to be to a good home. :)

a agree with ya DD..
i agree with most who say bring back the off season..

For what its worth I would like to see it come back also I enjoyed going there everyday even when nothing was going on.I feel a little like I've lost my dog and I can't find him.

i heard if ya put your shirt out where you saw em last..they will come home...


COME HOME SPARKY :lolabove: COME HOME!!

Heck if I knew where to put my shirt to bring "sparky" back I would:bash:

Guys please, enough of this crap. I have to tell it like it is. This place is bad without the off season forum. The fun and excitement has been cut in half. The politic forum has taken a major hit with the deletion of the off season forum. What I ask now is from you guys to be honest with your customers. Will you or won't you bring back the off season forum? I would be lieing to you if I haven't thought about jumping ship lately and looking for a better place. I've looked once already. This might as well be a seasonal board for hunting. Having a back ground in sales, I can't image anyway that can't be good for business. I do understand having what you descibed before not being good either. However, I must ask, which is worst?

FYI, I post this not in defiance but out of true frustration.

We did discuss this a bit today and we will bring back the 'off season' but it will probably be next week before it's back up.

Keep it 'fun' and without the personal attacks/overt sexual references and other things that keep me swimming in email complaints and you will be fine. However, we absolutely will not tolerate anymore of the moderator/site bashing. As I have said before, you don't have to like the moderation, but you do have to respect it. (at least on the boards, you can hate us all you want in private. :D )

BTW, New user registrations are actually up a bit since it's been taken down. ;) (and they're not just the banned users coming back. LOL.)

Thank you and yes, you are correct, new names are popping up all over the place. I can tell it's more than the libs who are embarrassed and need to get a new name.

I myself am guilty of a lot of sexual references, however, I try to stay on the correct side of that fine line and not make them overt. Half the fun is making that line thin.

dont bring me in it :violin:

That's good that it's coming back. The members here obviously like that forum.

I must concur with what Christine posted though. Site activity has actually been up since the OS was removed. There's at least 2-3 more pages of new posts every time I log in.

Thanks for deciding to bring it back. I hope this site will get back to what it was like back in the "old days". I remember it would take an hour or so to catch up on all the new posts and threads on the days that I had to work. It was definately a hopping site!

My wife and I both post here, she much more than I. And the Off Season forum got most of our attention, especially hers. We do read the other forums though, but I got my current bow at half price because it was returned by someone who bought it and didn't like it. And we bought my wife's bow at a yard sale. So we don't have much to say when it comes to who has a terrific new bow. :D

I have never been banned or warned. My wife has never been banned, although she was once criticized by a mod for a post. We're not sure if it was meant to be a warning or not.

But here's my suggestion as one way to reduce friction in the future if the Off Season forum is restored. (I suppose this could apply to any forum for that matter.) A moderator suggested in a post that we read Rule #5, so I did. And it occurred to me that there is a way to reduce some of the conflict and friction there. Here is the extract from Rule #5 which I believe is the answer. HuntingNet.Com moderators, administrators and staff will NOT respond to any inquiries or challenges of these rules or decisions on the public forum.

I do believe adherence to this rule, while it won't eliminate people stirring the pot, will deter moderators from "fanning the flames."

Strict adherance to this rule will result in a lot more people getting in trouble. Here's rule #5 in it's entirety.

The way I understand this rule is it's simply saying that just because you pose a question on the open board in no way means we (mods, admin) are required to answer it. Respectfully asked in private, per forum rules, will get an answer.

Case in point: if we strictly enforced this rule, then your post would have gotten you a warning, and/or it would have been removed rather than replied to, since it is publicly challenging the editing policy, even if it is only a suggestion. Then you wouldn't have gotten an answer at all, you would have just gotten aggravated and maybe a warning.

There's two big problems as I see it.

#1. People only want the rules enforced when it affects them, and then only the part that affects them personally. Case in point, the above post. Otherwise, they want the freedom to bend/break/totally ignore the rules as they choose.

#2. This actually is a continuation of #1. It's a no-win situation for the mods. If we are lax in enforcing the rules, we get lots of complaints. If we strictly enforce the rules across the board, we get lots of complaints.

Case in point, again, is the above post. The request is to strictly enforce/adhere to the last part of rule #5....the irony is the request is made in violation of the first part of rule #5.

So, what's the solution here? Strictly enforce rule #5, which results in the post making that request being removed, the poster being warned, and no real answer or discussion ensuing...or ignore said request, and ignore the rule violation that goes with the request, and discuss how ironic a request it is? Can't have our cake and eat it too.

If everyone would adhere to the forum rules, there would be a lot less friction. If just the ones that live in glass houses wouldn't throw rocks, I doubt we'd have a problem at all.

Unfortunately, I don't see either of those happening, at least not voluntarily. It's a happy thought though. :barmy:

I believe the damage has been done. You've chased away the heart and soul of this board. There may be some new activity but I suspect a lot of that is people signing in as someone other than we know them. In fact.... I know that for a fact. Too little too late I'm afraid. THe people who made this board have left to include half the past moderators. THey all have some place else to go now.

Well they're more than welcome to come back if they can act like adults and behave themselves. There's a myriad of topics to discuss and folks can be plenty colorful without shattering the rules and insulting people like some of them were. But a portion of the folks you're talking about got themselves booted from here and have absolutely no one to blame but themselves. A lot of the folks who were posting before the OS was removed will come back. I can't even count how many of those guys have posted "farewell" threads that were short lived. As long as folks aren't doing the crap that got the OS removed, I don't have a problem with anyone coming back... if they want to.

You can refer to the Politics forum as an example of heated, colorful debate that's within forum rules. Some topics/folks get a little out of hand sometimes and they're handled accordingly. There's no reason, what so ever, that the Off Season can't follow the same path. It's all up to the people posting in it.

??????????? I don't understand. There is an exact spot in the timeline when all of this began. It seems like the admin would just look at the facts and get rid of the obvious problem or problems. I hope this place gets back to how it used to be but I'm not going to hold my breath.

You're not a COlorado Luckydog.... you're a SMART DOG. Don't hold your breath. A life is too valuable. LOL

The Admin did get rid of a few of the "Problems".

The Members that admin got rid of were not the "Problem" Their bad attitudes were results of the "Problem". The "Problem" still exsist and is here a everyday with a I know everything smarty pants attitude. :s4: