Full inclusion for PA
 

PA just passed full inclusion by a 4-3 vote. There is to be no magnification on scopes, but I will getmore detail on that shortly.
Randy

RE: Full inclusion for PA
 

That is fantastic, I wonder if they can use red dot scopes with no magnification??? But another one into the fold. NJ also right next to you is allowing it for 2009 too. Picking off each state one ata time for allowing Crossbows.


Way to go PA.

Brian

RE: Full inclusion for PA
 

Red dots will be allowed.

RE: Full inclusion for PA
 

its not WAY TO GO pa.

huntersARE NOT IN FAVOR OF THIS,THAT WAS SHOWN AT MEETING.[:@]

its crossbow manufactures with their politics as usual,PAYOFFS and a DCNR that wants all deer gone.


so, we live with it , nothing new for pa hunting.

RE: Full inclusion for PA
 

Yes its a great day for PA. A LOT of hunters are for it. I know many hunters who are getting up in age that can't shoot a vertical bow anymore will be happy to be out hunting with a bow again. A lot of your own UBPA or whatever you call yourself were in favor of it just like here in NJ with UBNJ when polled about crossbows were in favor of it too.

Hey I USED to shoot a Hoyt Trykon but just traded it in on a StrykeForce crossbow and I am a relatively healthy person who could if I wanted to hunt with a vertical bow. I just choose to hunt with a Crossbow for next year. I can't wait. Its just a WAY COOLER WEAPON to use and for me much more fun. Yahoo more states are allowing crossbows.

I think It would be horrible as we get older to not be allowed to hunt with a bow do to age or illness. I dread that. I am 39 now but 65 is just around the corner and I hope to keep after these deer that I love for a long time. I know a few in my club that they miss archery and hope that the crossbow gets allowed so they TOO can enjoy what they been missing do to being older and not able to bow hunt anymore. They have no injuries to get the Medical pass just older. SO its great that NJ and Now PA is allowing them to use it for next year. I am sure these guys are not alone.

Way to go PA

Brian

RE: Full inclusion for PA
 

i bet this puts a bigtime hurt on compound bow co.

also i see a ton of compounds for sale.

you should get some good deals on matthews bows.

only the diehard hunters in archery like us will go to crossbow,as long as in-lines are allowed in oct, most are not getting a crossbow, they can get a doe then with gun, why spend money on bow.

so, you may not see a lot of new hunters,but only new bow sales and present hunters changing to crossbow.

everyone i know is getting rid of compound bow for crossbow.

RE: Full inclusion for PA
 

B,
I don't know of anyone that I have talked to that is for xbows in PA. Regardless of age, I didn't think that it was too hard for anyone not physically able to draw a bow to get medical pass. Believe me, I am a huge fan of getting people who can not, for whatever reason, draw a bow out in the woods. That said, this law change is going to get alot of people out in the woods who shouldn't be out in the woods. I hope that I am wrong, but I can not find a way to feel good about this move.

Worried in PA.


For my own curiousity.....why is a crossbow more fun for you?

RE: Full inclusion for PA
 

I think there is a false assumption that all vertical bow hunters or maybe we'll call these ones 'users', practice and become proficieint. Sure, the kinds of vert bow hunters that join the groups, and are so vocal about the crossbow issue, most likely put in their dues and spend hundreds of hours on the range. But I guarantee you there is a sizable contingent of bow 'users' who shoot a few times a year and hit the woods. These are the same types that take the shotgun out of the case the day before season, blow the dust off, and go hunting, or the guys that buy a crossbow at Dick's on the way to the stand. The type of weapon doesn't dictate the type of hunter-there will unfortunately be losers in every group. It is our responsibility as true hunters, to support the sport, our DNR's, and hunter safety programs, in order for our sport to not only endure, but to grow and prosper. IMHO, of course.

RE: Full inclusion for PA
 

OK Sproul, get your diaper changed and have mother tuck you in, youll feel better in the morning>>>>>

RE: Full inclusion for PA
 

not worth replying too..

Wyvern

RE: Full inclusion for PA
 

Stopped bow hunting couple of years ago due tovision problems. No problem drawing back a compound but itsdifficult to focus on peep, pin and target. I tried several suggestions but it just did not work out. Reason i tried an x-bow was cause i could put a scope/red dot on it, see the target and feel pretty confident in putting the arrow where i wanted it to go.The reason being i am using single plane focus rather than a multiple one. I really enjoy shooting my compound but now can place the arrowmore acurately using a crossbow. If i was younger with good vision i would prefer to shoot a vertical bow than a crossbow. reason being a compound shoots out further and is alot quieterthan my crossbow. If NYS allows crossbows in the next couple of years i will be able to return to archery hunting.

RE: Full inclusion for PA
 

LMAO!! A person Is a diehard hunter because he elects to hunt with a xbow? And why Is it everyone you know Is getting rid of there compounds In favor of a xbow?

RE: Full inclusion for PA
 

[quote]ORIGINAL: Ben / PA


Ben/PA
That medical pass is NOT as easy to get as you think, MY best friend at my club has MS he is very early 30s and has had it for a while and it has progressed a good bit. He still hunts but things are gettting harder. His Dr says he has to change meds because the ones he is on are not being effective enough. He tried to get a medical pass for crossbow but was denied. I was very upset for him and I see his struggle all the time we are together. Things are just now as easy for him as it is for me or you. His vision is even affected and those pins are not as easy to see as before. With his scopes on his MZ loader he is ok. He can't take the heat at all even what we think are nice days out side like 70's he stays indoors till it gets cooler out. His vision is also affected and has a hard time with it. He has a hard time holding his bow drawn keeping it still. To me his only effective range is now UNDER 10 yards. Even though its illegal I tell him get a crossbow and use it on the club property but he wont. I was proud that day to see that he didn't want to go against the rules. I was just mad that day to see the stinking F&G or whatever wont let him get a crossbow.

for me I have been using a vertical bow for a while and I LOVE LOVE archery season. Archery and Muzzle loader season are my favorite seasons for hunting by far. I don't know if its just that its just a new weapon that has me but I love the idea of a crossbow and can't wait to get it in. Its just a stinkin cool weapon. I have no regrets trading in my hoyt trykon at all. If I ever get the bug again to shoot one I am 10 minutes away for a store that can hook me up again. I am just enamored by the crossbow right now and love the history of it used way back when and love seeing all the new crossbows out there now.

Best as I can describe it.

Brian

RE: Full inclusion for PA
 

Why in HELL does anyone spend their time and brain power worrying about what weapon I choose to shoot a deer with.
If I want to hunt with a rock that is my business.
I feel sorry for those who would exclude anyone from hunting.
Just stupid.

I think we should ban hunters who drive Ford's or those with black hair,Bald folks cannot hunt anywhere in the world.
If your name starts with a "D" you can only hunt on days that start with the letter "T" and then you must have one hand tied behind your back.
Those who choose trad bows cannot use any modern equipment,including your car or truck,you must wear buckskins from a deerkilled by you with a knife that you made from knapping flint,that knife is to be no more that 4" in length and the deer can only be killed on a Monday after 3 pm.
Only left handed hunters allowed and they must be over 6'7" tall.

Should I go on?

I think not.

RE: Full inclusion for PA
 

i've had a lifetimedisable permit here in pafor two years now and had nothing to gain with this vote, but i lost with this vote the use of the scope that came with my xbow package....now i have to switch to the pin and peep sights that came with the xbow....funny thing is i can put my scope on for the regular deer and bear season but i can't use it for archery seasons....they also did away with the use ofxbows during the week long m/l and flintlock season with a m/l stamp with the scope, but i can use it then with my archery stamp in those seasons but without the scope....so people with the disabled permit lost big time, unless they grandfather us in....way to go pa with this vote againest us disabled permit holdingpeople, i smell a discrimination lawsuite brewing in the wings................bob

....

RE: Full inclusion for PA
 

You can use a red dot scope...it just cant be magnified...you are not stuck with the peep and pin. That and many newer crossbows have no provision for a peep and pin.

Wyvern

RE: Full inclusion for PA
 

RE: Full inclusion for PA
 

RE: Full inclusion for PA
 

:D:D:D:D

RE: Full inclusion for PA
 

SCOPE/NOT NECESSARY TO PULL BOW IN A TREE/LESS PRACTICE.

most think they can shoot 50 yds.

RE: Full inclusion for PA
 

you can still use your scope, i believe.

RE: Full inclusion for PA
 

REMEMBER WHEN I SAID THIS CROSSBOW THING SHOULD BE FOR THE DISABLED,THAT YOU WILL SEE END TO THE DISABLED HAVE A CHANCE TO GET A BUCK, NOW YOU CAN SEE WHY I SAID THIS.

disabled chances now will get worst to get a deer, more archery hunters,less chance for buck.

i could be wrong and i will report on it.

from my first interviews with local hunters,ONLY the compound hunters are getting crossbow.......

thew new hunters told me they are staying with their IN-LINES,they are after meat and in-line in oct is enough for them.

if in-line season was stopped in oct, I BET THE CROSSBOW SALES WOULD ROCKET,

RE: Full inclusion for PA
 

Safe Bet.

RE: Full inclusion for PA
 

could very well be.

if in-line season was not so big now in oct,i think crossbow sales would be very high.

they will sell to ones that are archery hunting now that have compound bows, thats what i am hearing.

cost is not going to get many to buy a crossbow other than the compound users.

i could be wrong there too, i will just have to watch the affects of it and report back.

early in-line season is somewthing i never thought of until i talked to a lot of hunters.

when we had like 5 deer you could get, a lot more wanted to hunt in archery.

now, with early in-line season,it seems that most are putting their time in there.

lack of deer is another reason.

all this is affecting things so quick,its hard to get feel of what will happen.

i can only watch what i see at range, gunshops and the archery season.

no doubt the compound shooters will switch to a crossbow, thats going to happen, i hear it.

RE: Full inclusion for PA
 

if i read the new rule here in pa,
it says scope cannot be more than 1x power on scope.

i think almost all horton scopes are 4x.

isnt that great rule to pass,now they have to take all their scopes off their crossbows.

what nut ever came up with that one.:)

RE: Full inclusion for PA
 

a couple of posts i read think they will let permit holders to keep them in the april meeting, a slight shimmer of light..............bob

....

RE: Full inclusion for PA
 

so, if you have a former disabled permit,you will be able to use a scope above 1x,if not, you cant use it.

most cant use crossbow now properly for hunting then make it harder for them to see.

boy, the WCO are going to have a lot of time checking the hunters .

..

RE: Full inclusion for PA
 

Yep, the crossbow train continues to roll. And it is no surprise considering that the majority of highly vocal antis tend to come across as being elitist snobs and/or so willing to grossly distort the truththat the more they talk, theless many folks take them seriously. The wonderful thing is that most of them aren't bright enough to figure that out:D

RE: Full inclusion for PA
 

LCC, they are still ranting over on the Northeast site about passage. Still saying the majority doesn't want it blah blah. Now the Corneilius guy is stating that the Ohio hunters are at odds w/ each other over Xbow / compound. I don't beleive i have ever seen such rancor amongst hunters. I kept at the as I own ground in PA to hunt . They are litist and as much as they wanted to say tradition they could not keep the superiority out of the rants about cross bow hunters, still can't. I was living in pA when the compounds were allowed and that was the end of the deer herds and that was the opening for wanton herd slaughter. There is no doubt that PA Game Commish has issues but man the sportspeople sure don't hep their own causes acting like spoiled brats. Pick me up on the way out 70 east, we'll stop at WalMart pick up some cheap crossbows and go poaching in pA. I mean if they are accusuing Xbow hunters before the first bolt is flung..............

RE: Full inclusion for PA
 

"Pick me up on the way out 70 east, we'll stop at WalMart pick up some cheap crossbows and go poaching in pA"

I always get a giggle out of that old excuse that Xbows are "poaching weapons" What poacher in his right mind wants to shine a deer, launch an arrow at it, then wait 1/2 and hour for it to bleed out then wander thru the woods with flashlights looking for it :eek: Ummm....you want to outlaw "poaching weapons" take a look at a 22mag and how it is used for head shots...THATS the choice for poachers..
Wyvern

RE: Full inclusion for PA
 

the PGC was on tv explaining why they went with the 1x scope over the 4x scope rule.

they said they had a lot of calls and concern over hunters going to shoot 40/50/60 yds at deer with crossbow.

so, they said thats why they went with the red dot 1x scopes that dont magnify.

thats was my concern from beginning on crossbow if anyone read my posts,i guess they got a lot of calls on this.

RE: Full inclusion for PA
 

I have talked with some retail dealers in Virginia about crossbows. They told me when the state allowed crossbows, as expected, afair amount of rifle hunters purchased crossbows. A few years later, these same hunters began to purchase compound bows. Total harvest seem to bethe same, just the weapon used mix differs.I seem to be following this same progression. I do like to think of deer hunting as a mutually inclusive sport.

RE: Full inclusion for PA
 

There's nothing to fear. Ohio has legalized use of the crossbow since the 70's. Plenty of deer to go around with big bucks to chase regardless what you chose to carry in the field with you. One neat trend I've seen over and over again is that a family or group of friends can "share" a crossbow. Try doing that with a vertical bow. A parent can let their kid use their crossbow to start hunting with. What's the problem with that?

RE: Full inclusion for PA
 

most of poaching with crossbow is around parks where a gun shot will be heard.

latest now is homemade silencers are being used on the 22 mag rifles,so that may do away with the crossbow .

road hunters use crossbow a lot but only in daylight,they stick it out window and shoot.door is nice rest for crossbow.

but i agree with you, poaching weapon is not crossbow ,22 mag is one and new thompson contender pistol in 223/222 is hot poachers weapon now because its classed as a PISTOL and can be carried while SPOTLIGHTING.

that was a big mistakeLETTING THE POACHER CARRY A PISTOL, FOR SURE.[:@]

RE: Full inclusion for PA
 

DOE,here is truth of why crossbow was opposed here in pa.

our deer herd is at worst levels in history.

we dont have lots of deer in wmu2g ,as you do in ohio.

adding another weapon to early archery will increase the DOE KILL.

we dont want that.

crossbows are allowed before this new rule in gun season and late flintlock BUT very few use one, they use gun.

WHY, meat.........

then you have hunters like you said, EVERYONE CAN USE SAME CROSSBOW.

that is our worry,people that dont know yds over 30 are bad and not practicing and using GOOD MORALE SENSE.

we are loaded with people that want MEAT and will take shot at 60 yds .

this is why the PGC went and said,YOU HAVE TO REMOVE YOUR 4 POWER SCOPES.

why, because these non sportsman hunters will take a 60 yd shot, THEY DOING IT NOW.[:@]

those reasons are why the poll to commissionerson crossbows was 90% against and 10% for.

yet they still voted it in.

now we have to live with it.

i was for it for the DISABLED,it gave them a chance to hunt in archery and chance to get a buck.

now, with new hunters that crossbow will bring,DISABLED chances get worst that they will get a buck now.

heck, i only saw 1 buck in archery and he was so spooky from in-line hunters, no way i could get closer than 30 yds but you can bet a crossbow arrow will be shot at him at 40.50/60 yds.[:@]

i dont hate a crossbow in hands of people like on here in AREAS where there are lots of deer.

i guess you could say its 2 things that we dont like.

LACK OF DEER
UNETHICAL HUNTERS

if both of those were not a concern, SPROUL WOULD BE FIRST TO SAY,why not..........

RE: Full inclusion for PA
 

I'm not saying xbows are the easy way to go out there and hunt with being I've heard plenty of stuff from the likes of you all on why there not as easy as I once thought and I apologize for that. I do though have a problem with starting a kid out with a xbow. Minus lugging the xbow around being there heavy and awkward there pretty simple to shoot. Why Is It we have to make things easier for a kid now a days to get Into something? Kids these days are way different then they were 15 years ago when I was running around. We worked for our stuff, It wasn't given. Dad always told me no shortcuts son and I plan on raising my daughter the same. I have a 1.5 year old daughter and I can't wait till she's old enough to start shooting bow with me If that's what she wants to do. Here's the thing though, If she's not Interested to shoot a bow because It's not fun being It's to hard to pull back a bow, I guess that's the end of It then unless she changes her mind. I'm not going to go out and buy her a xbow because It's easier to shoot being she don't have to pull It back. The only reason I'd buy her one was If she would get a disability of some kind. There either serious about shooting a bow or not and I'm not going to push It on them at all. Any kid out there that has no disability's and wants to pull a regular bow back can do It, It's called putting your time In and working for It and not sitting your but In front of the TV playing video games all the time when Instead they should be doing some practicing from time to time. You don't get good at sports by not doing them, you get good by practicing and doing them. Parents these days are to blame for kids not wanting to work for anything anymore. You adults can do what you want but I have a real problem with getting kids Involved In something whether It's hunting, working, or just life In general by taking short cuts so It's fun for them.

I mean no disrespect to any of you that hunt with a xbow. I've came along way from how I use to feel about xbows. What I did say though In my 1st paragraph I stand by It 100%. Xbows will be legal everywhere In the near future. The Technology In the compounds pretty much opened the door on getting xbows legal In allot of states so I don't blame the xbow company's and xbow hunters for pushing like they have. What scares me Is how far will this technology go In compounds and xbows from here on out. There's going to be a time when bowhunting will not be up and close hunting, It's getting that way already. The past time will soon be gone with newer generations and In reality It Isn't the young crowds fault one bit being It will be out there for the taking.

RE: Full inclusion for PA
 

Hey Schultzy! I must agree with you somewhat. I think it would be great to first give one's kids a stick and string and let them have at it. A stick and string for many reasons is probably a good idea from an injury, property damage etc stand point. The principles of Traditional archery would teach them a whole lot of discipline and patience. On the other hand it would also be great to allow them the experience and therefore the choice of different types of archery. To me the bottom line is that the real game is getting close enough to an animal to earn the choice of letting that arrow go or not. So yes I agree that it would be a good thing but I don't think it is of paramount importance. Sportsmanship, patience and disipline are far more important.
Carrying on the tradition of Traditional bows is the reponsibility of Traditional shooters not rifle, shotgun, compound bow or crossbow shooters. I know one thing for sure, if I ever have grandchildren they will be playing with a stick and string first.

RE: Full inclusion for PA
 

i like your comments too.
GETTING CLOSE ENOUGH TO DECIDE TO LET ARROW GO.

if dads would teach kid just that,i would feel a crossbow would be great down road.

but i agree with both of you, today, kids want it easy.

my brothers son is 12 and he quit hunting because it was COLD out and he saw no deer .

he was only in woods 3 hrs.:eek:

but we are going to be swamped with ADULTS AND KIDS that think a crossbow is gun and will just shoot and NOT EVEN KNOW YARDS THEY ARE SHOOTING.


i know, i sight in bows for both from what i learned on here from great crossbow users here.,

i knew nothing about crossbow but learned it here from experts.

who is going to TEACH all these new crossbow hunters with kids on distance they are shooting and how to shoot it

...
NO ONE, TRUST ME ON THAT.

at our last sportsmans meeting, 4 kids showed up.

yet, i trained 56 kids to get their licenses.

no interest.

now they are going to carry a crossbow that someone left them use

RE: Full inclusion for PA
 

To my knowledge you can't have ANY weapon in your vehicle while spotting deer in Pa? Am I mistaken?

RE: Full inclusion for PA
 

we caught a poacher spotlighting after hrs.
we know he shot a big buck but did not catch him shooting.

in his vehicle he had a THOMPSON CONTENDER 222 CAL.

the new law in pa says you CAN CARRY A PISTOL WHILE SPOTLIGTHING.[:@]

also you can carry it in archery season while hunting with a bow.[:@]

so, they could not take his pistol,even tho they know he used it to poach.

isnt this a great rule from PGC.[:@]