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poacher likes the 22CAL because he can shot the deer in head and it will drop in its tracks..crossbow, you are going to see deer run away, they dont have time to chase deer in dark..

around privateland and parks, yes, bow is what they use..but i dont think the crossbow is used as much now on stateforestland,where it used is around parks,dams, near homes, thats where big buck are now,not on stateforestland..

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But I have heard of Long Bows, Recurves and Compounds!!!!![:@]And with a Light. Look on the Hog Forum and see the lights for these bows!

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OK My 2 cents.
Even tho I have shot compound for only 23 yrs(I dont know much)I have seen over and over guys comming out to the range(some witch I have never seen before)with thier new compounds,recurve and start shooting and tinkering,being dumb and nosie,I will ask,new bow and the repley I useualy get is yep going hunting with it nxt week.then I will say good luck and walk away thinking to myself what a idiot(but who am I to judge).Then there are the guys at the range I know and talk too,and I hear alot of them talking how they got thier buck at 60-55-65 yards,Ill say something like.Wow thats a long shot,the reply I get is ,well Iam shooting a such and such bow at 90 pound draw with 340gr arrow 100gr BH.Then I wounder how many deer they have injurd and just never say anything.Ive always kept it simple.I can shoot 40yrd and hit kill zone(3-D)so Itake half that distance and thats your optumum distance for talking a deer(20yrds),hence the farthest I have ever taken a deer was 26/28 yrds,most of the deer in my short 23 yrs of archery have been under 20 yrds.
Recurve/longbow shooters I know its usualy the other way around.He came in at 25 yrds but didnt want to try the shot,wanted to stalk or get him with in 15yrds.......
TWO TOTALY DIFERANT WORLDS.

NOW to Crossbows...Dont know a darn thing about them and do not know anyone around here that uses one ether just what you guys tell me....and when I buy one I wont hunt with it for at least a year..or longer,depending on what the Doc says.
PS....
He didnt say anything today about my neck and arm,Just delt with my Sons hearing prblem.

Didnt mean to ramble.........ops

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Ranger what you have said is EXACTLY what I was saying. It is not the weapon of choice that a hunter chooses to use, but the hunter themself. It does not matter what these hunters use, they will be in the woods without being able to handle their choice effectivly, and that is sad. We need to hold these hunters responsible, not the tool of choice.

The crossbow can be a great biginner's or senior's bow. That is a bow to introduce new hunters into archery, or one that allows seniors to continue to hunt when they are not capable of drawing and holding a bow at draw effectivly any longer. I personally know youths that started out with the crosbow, but then switched to compounds then recurves as they progressed. A great thing about crosbows is that you can master them quicker (become compitant) then their vertical cousins. But, if you take an expert with the crossbow & compound, you wil find that the compound will shoot higher scores in compitation. It just takes an extreem amount more dedication and practice to become that efficent. In todays world, with work commitments, family, most hunters are not able to find the time to become that efficent. Actually I would prefur that they spend more time with their children and then choose a crossbow if they have to (for a tool which they are compitant with).

Ranger, about our comment of waiting a year to hunt with the crossbow after you buy it, it is a good practice but is not really needed to wait that long. You sound like you already know how to archerry hunt and the ranges of the equipment. What you would need to learn is the saftey aspect of the crossbow (precidures mostly) and the arrow tradjectory for the different distances (for the shooting window). Once you become acustomed to these, then you will be safe in my opinion to hunt with the bow. Practice with aquire this for you.

Good luck.

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Grumpy Tom: Good post!! You hit the nail right on the head, imho.

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i was at club today, 20 archers there..1 said to me,SPROUL,my dad shot buck at 60 yds with his crossbow..

YOUR COMMENTS ARE RIGHT..wounding of deer would be worst if we had deer here in pa. we had 20 years ago..

these crossbow NEWBIES think that thing is gun..i heard one say, yea, my cousin holds over back on the deer on pipelines at 100 yds..he said he aims about 4 ft high..

can you believe that..

i got a lot of dirty looks today when i had my arrows looked at..i know what they are thinking,ole sproul is *****,he has to use a SISSY crossbow..

well, let me tell you, i like shooting crossbow and if i cant pull my recurve do to health in future,i am getting one..

right now, its fun to sight these crossbows in..

young kids cant stand it when i shoot arrow into same arrow at 20 yds with my martin recurve..i can shoot with best compound shooters up to about 20 arrows, then i get tired,and they blow my socks off..

i shoot instinctive,no sights and they use sights..they cant figure how i shoot like that, they will never know because you have to think like INDIAN not sight on bow shooter..

sorry i wandered off again..

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Sproulman: You're getting pumped full of poop by bashers. As far as the 100 yd shots on deer, lemme share a little xbow trivia w/ ya. I have, among others, an Excal Exomax. Until the introduction of the Stryker, it was the fastest xbow on the market at 350 fps. W/ said Exomax, at 350 fps, the mid range trajectory is in the vicinity of 25 FEET. Yeah, you read it right, the arrow has to rise 25 feet above your line of sight to hit on a target at 100 yds. Now, I've never personally tried that extreme of a range, but there artealot of xbow clubs/shooters in Europe that do that kind of thing on a regular basis, as Europe has a lot longer history/tradition w/ xbows than we do. They have to have special mounts made to tweak their scopes to shoot at 100 yds, as the common every day type won't adjust that much to allow those ranges. IOW, they have tilted mounts to rough adjust the poi, and then fine tune via the scopes adjustment. So, when you read/hear of 100 yd 3" groups w/ b-heads, turkeys taken at 140 yds, ect you are in the presence of a real prevaricator, lol.

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i can show you pictures of a crossbower that shots 2 inch groups at 88 yds,2213 arrow xx78,nap nitron 125 hunting point..he puts 6 arrows in that 2 inch area..

i also agree with you too..

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Ole Sproule, no one but the most retarded tries a shot that far with any arrow. That my friend is something you can take to the bank. The person that does that is so far in left field that he is NOT associated with us. Just a mental midget. The weapon of choice for poaching in my part of the world is the 22 or 22 magnum. One behind the ear drops them all. This is what we were told in forestry school.

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1st a 22 behind the ear will just be a deer for the yotes.There is many people that do not know much about poaching.To kill a deer with a 22 you have to shoot it in the center of the head right above the eyes.Never in the side.You have to have a flat spot to peatrate.I do beleave there is a ton of deer shot with the 22.But not dew to pochers more by opertunist.Most guys that shoot a deer with a 22 are doing so becouse they do not get to see many deer up close and cant pass up a chance at a shot.

The Xbow or any bow is a better wepoin for poaching.I know of many guys that kill lots and lots of deer with them.Xbow being nuber one.Most get in the back of the truck and pull right up to them.1 the deer run just off the road for a night time pick up and 2 NO one knows you shoot.You can shoot a deer right in peoples back yard,and no one knows it.The meet hunters will use the xbow or bow.

I kill things at longer ranges than most.Just like anything.some guys can hit a golf ball 100 yards some can hit it 500.I can tell you if you do not get in the time to shoot a lot and tune every thing. You better not shoot any long shots.

Charles Bradford

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Well maybe it's different in your part of the woods but I have never heard, read or being told at college that a crossbow was used patently for poaching. The premier tool of poachers is the 22 long rifle and 22 magnum placed behind the ear or at the base of the ear.
If you know of these people doing what you say they are doing why don't you report them? It is the right thing to do!

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.I do beleave there is a ton of deer shot with the 22.But not dew to pochers more by opertunist.Most guys that shoot a deer with a 22 are doing so becouse they do not get to see many deer up close and cant pass up a chance at a shot.

Anyone that shots a deer out of season or with a weapon that is not allowed just to be an OPERTUNIST or just can't pass up the shot are poachers in any form of law. Just ask any law officer.

It was not me that stated that the 22 rifle was the choice of weapon, it was a State agenacy which posted that in an artical. They had all the stats and data to back up the artical. Again, I have used crossbows for over 25 years and I would never use an archery tool to poacch if I was a poacher. Just too short of range and too much of a chance for the animal to run into an uncontroled area, meaning that I might not recover the animal, also meaning that a carcus might be found that would cause trouble.

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I see . is slamming crossbow hunters under bowhunting,topic,the moderators.
I am a Rep and it still peed me off.
And the can hunt thing that was posted didnt help.I beleaved thats what it is about.

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Poachers will use asny weapon to poach with and the only consideration of choice . . .if indeed there is any consideration is "will using this particular weapon get me caught"? I'm not a crossbow hunter and prolly never will be because at least for right now it just does'nt appeal to me. However if I were a poacher , I don't think a crossbow would be my choice for several reasons including trying to shoot the thing out of a window, possibly having to track him at night in an area that most likely I'm not supposed to be.
From what I've seen most poachers will use a shotgun or rifle late at night, way of out in the boondocks, and hope for the best. Plus, it's mighty popular to hunt the moon with a high powered rifle with a good light gathering scope.

Basically, to be honest the biggest reason most bow hunters IMO speak out against the crossbow is because it represents more competition in the woods in an otherwise low competition season. I know that if it came down to a vote on my part in my state, that would be the only incentive I would have to vote against their use. . . .but it won't, and I don't let it bother me.

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Bro. Mac, that's like Rifle Hunters protesting against using Muzzle Loading Rifles during general season cause it represents more competition in the woods in an other wise low competition season.:D

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You would have to show me as I'm not believing that.

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Reb, although he maybe misguided, atleast he's being honest and reasonable. Leafrivermac has obviously not read our hunting success thread.
Leafrivermac, perhaps you should read the thread, crossbows do not represent any more competition than any other form of archery.
http://www.huntingnet.com/forum/tm.aspx?m=1726407

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Dan I was wondering how much KEa Bolt or Arrow would have at 88yds to kill an animal? This debate seems to me to be at Bull Ring archery targets.

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Don, I drove 1,000 miles out of my way to meet Bro.Mac and familyin Mississippi. I know how honest he is!:)He speaks his mind and that's the way it is!

I just through that at him for comparison.;)

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Reb, you would have to know the arrow weight and speed to compute the k.e. I don't have the figures at my finger tips, but the required k.e. to take a deer is alot lower than one would think.

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I think this is a pretty cool post, I am assuming by competition you mean the space taken up by a hunter, not the weapon.

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your right on reason on crossbow being disliked by recurve and compound hunters..i used to have area to my self,now in came the compound hunters that could not learn to shoot a recurvebow, compound was MUCH easier to shoot..so, more hunters

NOW in comes the crossbow, disabled, ones that dont have time,ones that could never shoot a bow recurve or compound..

this put MANY hunters in woods when us recurve hunters had place all to ourselves..

this is why i get HATE looks when i shoot in a crossbow at our club..they look at you like you are on welfare, low life,lazy dirt bag..

be in all reality, that look is THIS.. its look of , THERE GOES ANOTHER HUNTER IN MY AREA THAT STANDS AS GOOD AS CHANCE AS ME TO GET THAT DEER..

i blame DCNR and PGC ..they reduced deer to these levels where you have many hunters after a few deer..

i even got threaten in my hunting area i was in for 42 years..i was told to leave, they were there first..i got news for them, no one is chasing me away after hunting in that area for 42 years..

i dont chase anyone away and no problem with anyone hunting there..

its not CROSSBOW THAT IS HATED ,ITS MORE COMPETITION IN WOODS FOR DEER THAT ARE LEFT..

i dont see it getting any better soon..head of PGC slipped of his tongue and said,MAYBE IN 20 YEARS WE WILL THINK ABOUT BRINGING DEER BACK TO PA..

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You Make it sound like there is not many deer in PA?!? I looked on there website and they said that on state forested land there data showed 10 to 20 deer per square mile! Here in Ohio if I had that many deer in my area I would be in heaven! How many deer do you need to think it is OK? And more CB competition does not mean less deer. You people need to pull your head out of the sand and look at Ohio's proof since there deer numbers only continue to rise. Someone who started this post said you need to post with facts, well open your eyes all and look at Ohio's facts and you will see the crossbow does not equal less deer. There isonly one group of people that should fear the CB and that is the people that decide to invest money into stopping them from being used, and not investing money into making them since that is the new tool that more people will be buying.

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Sproule, give it a break for the weekend will ya? I know you can't help it, your great, great grandma married a troll and once in a while the gene pops up! LOL!:D
Stop having so much fun!

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Very well said,copied it and hung it on the wall by my puter,thanks!