I don't hunt with a crossbow and would not lose sleep a night if AGFC said tommorrow that next season they couldn't be used. I haven't seen any valid arguments against using crossbows in this thread by anyone. And yes CougarMag I doubt that we would be friends if we met.

Talk about bells and whistles! Some of the modern crossbows don't exactly come off as a crossbow.

In fact, I know a few traditional equipment archers that do not and cannot shoot a compound bow. Any amount of letoff just kills their shoulder and some cannot get off the string cleanly.

Double Creek - true

Here's MS stats

Bow harvest: 52,738 (2002 data).
Muzzleloader harvest: 53,665 (2002 data).
Firearm harvest: 245,757 (2002 data).
Number of licensed deer hunters: 170,690 (2002 data).
Deer hunter success rates: 75.7 percent (2002 data).
Number of bowhunters: 58,293 (2002 data).
Bowhunter success rates: 52.6 percent (2002 data).
Number of muzzleloader hunters: 71,821 (2002 data).
Muzzleloader success rates: 53.2 percent (2002 data).
Number of firearm hunters: 162,242 (2002 data).
Firearm success rates: 72.1 percent (2002 data).


Dang thats a high success rate ! But imagine if there were a lot or gun hunters pick up crossbows. Your bowseason would see more hunters in the woods. there would be a higher archery kill, however a lower gun kill - bascially the same deer harvest would not change because of tag limits. Would archery season be shortened ? Well, no reason to really unless by freak chance your archery kill went to 200,000 and the rifle kill down to 50,000 or something like that.

But we can guess all we want to, fact is we have working models of crossbows in legal archery season in states like AR, IA, GA etc etc. One needs only look at the impacts there to get an idea of how things go.

And in AR, we have 4 1/2 months of archery season, liberal bag limits AND QDM in the way of a 3 point rule, and crossbows don't negatively affect it one little bit.

Cougar - All I'm asking is for one negative.

What are you suggesting ?

Sorry Datamax didn't realize you were from AR. You bring up a good point about tags. In AR in zone 12 you have 3 tags period. It doesn't matter if you use them with gun or archery.

Data,
There is not a thing wrong with a crossbow as a weapon, if the user understands it's limitations just like any other weapon of choice........it will kill just fine and dandy.
So I'm not sure what you want to hear? The negatives aren't with the weapon itself, its with the personal feelings toward the nature of archery hunting that gets guys like myself fired up.
I feel very strongly about the 2 points you just brought up........a Crossbow is a gun, and that you have to draw a bow.
Those 2 are intertwined and cannot be argued.
You can try and put spins on it all you want, but they aren't similar.
Regardless of how long I can physically hold my bow back, I cannot simply set it down if I choose not to shoot , and then pick it up again when the next animal walks by.
With a crossbow you can.
Above and beyond how long I can hold it back or not hold it back........you also have to hold the bow out with your other arm.

Plain and simple, hunting with a crossbow in archery season is too easy. Compound gadgets , releases etc don't make any difference.........the physical act of shooting a compound bow accurately and a crossbow, as well as hunting with either are vastly different.

I shot a good Ten Point Crossbow this past summer, the first time I ever shot a GOOD one with a scope. It had a red dot scope and pointed like a deer rifle.
I took 4 shots at 25 yards. The first 4 shots I ever took with a "real" crossbow........all 4 bolts were touching with 2 of them creased they were jammed togther so tightly.[:-]

I next handed the same crossbow to a buddy of mine (and fellow board member) his second shot squarely robinhooded the first bolt offhand.
That was the first 2 shots he ever took with a crossbow.

You ask what is wrong with that? Nothing!, very efficient close range weapon.........also a very easy to master close range weapon that doesn't require any skills above shooting the average .22.

So what does that translate into you ask? You ever been to Pennsylvania to hunt?
You ever hunt public ground in PA?
We have something like 270,000 bowhunters crammed into every nook and cranny, We also have nearly 1,000,000 rifle hunters..many of which feel that we as bowhunters get too much handed to us in the form of first crack at all the bucks.
Well do you think that a state like mine could handle say another 300,000 people now sharing the woods in archery season with an easier weapon?
There is a reason that there are 1/3 the number of Bowhunters VS. Rifle hunters here.......for most Bowhunting takes too much time and skill to master. Trust me it isn't because they all don't feel like hunting in the nice mild fall weather.

Call me greedy, call me elitist, call me whatever you like.......I choose to hunt with a bow because of the solitude, the challenge and the everything else that IS archery season.........and that everything else doesn't include more flourecent orange regs, 300,000 more hunters who are out there now simply because they now have a weapon they can relate to,walking by my treestand.

If you allow that, you might as well allow every other short range weapon you feel like for the archery season, handguns, flintlocks, spears, handgrenades, whatever.........Archery should never be point and shoot.
I hope it stays that way.

And for the record, if someone was using my exact model compound bow, same accessories, arrows, broadheads and release but they had a way to keep it at full draw the entire time on stand?.........I'd be fighting against that person as well because that is NOT archery hunting either.

I use to be there, I know what you mean. However, do you remember when compound fired people up ? 65% letoff ? Mechanical release ? mechanical broadheads ? 34" ATA bows ? One cam technology ? etc etc ?

I'll not totally disagree that they're different and in some big ways .......... but we must continue your lines of thinking and look at the differences between compounds and recurves. the physical act is vastly different from the full pull of the weight of the bow, to not using sights, to the limited range, to actually having to have the animal RIGHT THERE before starting your draw .......... man, I've bowhunted with crossbows, compounds and longbows and I'm telling you, each is different than the other but a recurve ? Vastly different that a crossbow/compound.

On PA and the numbers of hunters. Suffice is to say that if ya'llk have THAT many hunters, that also means ya'll are crammed with archery hunters too, right ? Compound archery hunters ? Every year that # grows ? What are ya'll doing about that ? I mean, the modern compound bow is cramming your archery seasons, isn't it ?

There is no challenge in shooting 6' groups at 30 yards with a compound - I know. I picked up my Dad's Q2, changed the sights to fit my shooting style, shot 15-20 shots and 3 days later single arrow, heart shot a buck. Very easy, very mechanical.

How about this radical idea. Ban all technology from primitive hunts. I mean take muzzleloaders back to cap and ball, loose powder and bullets. Recurves and longbows only. That would really change archery, you could have your solitude, your challenge, you'd REALLY get to know what archery really is, wouldn't you ?

Interesting .......... how "long" would they have to hold your exact bow to breach what is and isn't bowhunting ?

Easy.......if it's as long as a crossbow can.

I'd be the very first guy in line getting fitted for my brand new Longbow. (And my gun of choice for all other seasons already is a .50 cal Flintlock muzzleloader with loose powder)

I'm being honest.......I would rather see NOBODY legally be allowed to use a compound and force us to use recurves or longbows VS. allowing crossbows into archery season.

I like crossbows, they are a fun to shoot weapon but they are not archery equipment.

This is a debate which i feel like we could go back and forth on forever and ever and ever.....you feel your way, I feel mine. Sort of like a hunter trying to convince a firm anti-hunter the merits of the others views.........it isn't going to happen.