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Oh yeah?? Well your opinion is stupid!!

Move along Bucky!

The sport wouldn't have benefitted anything but that is irrelevevant first of all because she wasn't able to do it. So practicing was a moot point. Second, just because she was unable to shoot a bow very well she was very capable of judging yardage and making good shots with a crossbow and she had been gun hunting for a couple of years quite successfully. So in her situation all she needed to do was get proficient with her weapon to be ready to hunt. She already had the bullet placement, yardage estimation, and general hunting skills to be successful. So again what was bowhunting going to benefit by putting her off becasue she wasn't capable of pulling legal hunting weight?

I'm not, nor have I ever been a crossbow fan. I've bowhunted for years, but in all fairness, cannot provide any negatives regarding their deployment in archery season.

After reading a fist full of these posts, I have made the following determination;

Datamax is certainly no junior operator... archery & other matters alike.

Even tho I do not know him, I do believe that many have missed what he originally presented.

What's truly sad is reading archery hunter(s) ramble about their own proclamations - defending definitions like 3rd graders in the principals office. Suggestion: read his post once more and stop reading into what he asked for.

Define Crossbows = firearm status? Aren't one of you PA boys LE? Perhaps that's a loaded question, in that we're not looking for the criminal rating of an implement as a weapon capable of serious bodily injury or death. We're talking of archery tackle and not firearms by definition.

All these panties are in a bunch for what reason? Take it outside. He made a valid inquiry, not a flame. It's that simple.

Like I've posted before - and like ya'll have ignored time and again, these boys aren't bowhunters in your opinion, are they ? Had it been YOUR way, they'd have never bowhunted and killed their first archery deer. Had it been the anit-crossbow's way, these boys wouldn't have been in the woods bowhunting. Likely they'd have been at the TV playing video games.

They look like a couple of dandy archery hunters to me. Yessir.

Why couldn't those kids been in the woods, there is a lot more to hunting than shooting deer? My way .. which is the way it is in almost every state in our country has those boys waiting till ML or a firearm season to shoot those deer. They could use their crossbow then, if legal.

Those little guys are definitely hunters, but in my opinion .. and my opinion only, they are not bow hunters. They won't become that until the can hunt with a bow.

It appears that we are wrapping up this thread, and I'll say after many posts read, that I am even more clear on my own personal feeling about the subject of crossbows than before it started. I passively felt that crossbows should have their own seperate season, but was ok with them being legal only during firearm season, now I am even more convinced and would voice an opposition to their inclusion into archery season should that come up in my state. Datamax and others have made the point so WELL that technology continues to improve and change each year ... where does it stop? Look at how far they have gone with the concept of a pair of limbs and a string ... but going so far as to let a different weapon in, and even easier and more advanced one at that, has to be where archery stops, and crossbowing begins. Where it is amazing what they have done to a simple bow in the hands of engineers, where do you think they'll take crossbows now that even 3 states allow their use during archery season? Let's be honest guys, crossbows really only recently started to be even considered a viable hunting tool again .. where they are going to take these things will be downright scary. They have already got concept crossbows with in excess of 250 lb draw weight, the 2 bolt crossbow is already in development ... hell, a repeater!

Guys have asked, where do you draw the line .. the line has to be (in my opinion) where the limitations of man's strength and effort allow them to draw and hold back an arrow. It's the only thing that holds compunds from craziness .. because there is only so much you can do with that 70 lb draw on a bow where guys can pull and hold. Take that away . and you have a crossbow. A whole different ball game, and gladly still illegal in almost every state for healthy people.


And for all those guys looking for that one reason why crossbows are considered by many to be more firearm like then bow like, read Silents post. Here is a person who could not shoot a bow .. not even practice with one due to lack of strength. But she could grab a crossbow her husband cocked and loaded for her and go and shoot deer. That's what makes them so "gun like".

Yeah, well I don't think you're a bowhunter until you can drop the training wheels and learn how to shoot a real bow.

What do I base that on ? Easy - the same exact reaons you used to judge those bows.

BTW - those kids taking deer with crossbows were FAR more accomplishments that adult men taking deer with compounds IMO. I wish every kid could do what these two did.

Also, it's precisely whats makes your argument one of complete selfishness. To hell with the folks that aren't capable as long as it fits your needs? The only negatives that you can come up with about crossbows are ones that threaten the "elitism" of your fraternal boys club. Some how in your mind it's OK to descriminate against other hunters and think the sport is going to benefit from it. You can't tell me one way that you or the deer heard would be negatively effected by a crossbow. Your just afraid that the other folks that you have fooled into thinking that you are doing something really special by killing animals with a bow, won't think your so special any more. Your motiviations are completely motivated by greed. The sport will certainly not benefit from excluding people or from building obstacles that people must climb in order to see if it is even something they will truely be interested in. My view point is an inclusionary one that has the best interest of the sport in mind. Yours is an exclusionary one that has your own best interest in mind. You have clearly shown that you don't support the inclusion of the young, the weak, the partially disabled, or even the disabled because they don't fit your definition of what a bow hunters should be (of course it's OK to shoot resleases, drop away arrows rests and use range finders, expandable broadheads, glow in the dark fiber optic sights, 80% let-off etc. etc.) We get the picture. I have no doubt that you are even stronger in your conviction because you don't appear the type to take the oppurtunity to look at things from another perspective or willing to change and or adapt. I personally have that problem though more so in the past than now. I have found that to be one of my biggest weaknesses and therefore I have learned to overcome it and get both sides of an issue and then make the right decision rather than the one I am lead to during a knee jerk reaction. I used to feel the same way about crossbows that you do. However, after stepping back and thinking about it and weighing out all of the pros and cons, I admitted that my point of view was naive, descriminatory, and ultimately detrimental to the sport. Therefore, I altered my opinion accordingly. Ultimately I came to realize that though I thought I was protecting the "integrity" of the sport I was actually doing more harm than good. Ultimately, I was going to hurt myself in the long run because hunters need to recruit every man woman and child that they possibly can into the sport if we intend to retain this way of life that we now enjoy. IF we keep turning folks away from bowhunting then they aren't going to be there to support your rights or your seasons or anything else. Even if those folks don't leave hunting and they just turn to gun season it's going to hurt us in the long run. Eventually those people that have been turned away and wound up gun hunting will start to lobby the representatives for longer seasons and more animals during the gun season etc. and they are going to outnumber the "bowhunters" by a large margin and guess where they are going to take it from? Do you really think you are doing anyone else a favor but yourself by forcing your views on everyone else?

How many guns do you know of that shoot arrows? How many guns do you know of that use limbs and a string? How many guns do you know of that use cams? How many guns do you know of that are only able of killing an animal up to 40 yards? How many guns do you know of that shoot projectiles traveling less than 300 fps? How many guns do you know of that if you miss guess the yardage by five yards will have a tremedous impact on whether or not you hit the animal?