davidmil

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BigJ71

Yes but I was NOT pushing for the states legal definition rather I was pushing for the ACTUAL definition. To be honest, I don't care what the states think is or is not a bow. It dosen't matter what they think when it comes to "is a crossbow actually a bow or not". When it DOES matter is when the states vote on whether you are allowed to use that weapon (any weapon) or not. That however still does not CHANGE what that weapon (or any weapon) is, it just makes it illegal, thats all.

As of now most won't allow you to use them with the exception of the handicapped, they are allowed to. Some are allowed in the archery season, like here in Illinois and some are allowed in the gun season. It does not make either one right or wrong, just that particular states decision, for whatever reason.

I do believe a crossbow is a form of a bow and therefore belongs in bow season. Now that being said, I also understand (what I believe to be at least) everyone's main problem with them, and that is you don't have to draw in the presence of the deer and you don't have to worry about an anchor point, bow torque etc....and because it has a stock and you can rest it on something, assuming a rest is available.

I understand these points and they make me think as well. I guess (to me at least) they are not enough to overcome the obvious similarities that both share. To me there are so many similarities ie: limbs, cams, cables, string, projectile, type of energy, how said energy is stored, sights, trigger releases, arrow rests, attached quivers and the list goes on and on. It's hard not to consider them bows.

Then I factor in the fact the the actual hunt is the same and nothing changes in the set up or stalk or stand selection or anything for that matter. I believe if you saw a person in the woods without a weapon, and this person was just scouting for a place to put his tree stand or ground blind. You could not tell by the location of his stand if he was a compound bow hunter or a crossbow hunter. But if he was a rifle, slug gun or muzzle loader hunter you could tell, because there would not be that attention to the small details that would enable him to get close enough for a clean kill. It would not matter because lets face it you don't HAVE to be that close to get a clean kill shot with a rifle, slug gun or muzzle loader.

I think if there was ever a point I was trying to make that everyone here can understand, it's that one.

Now I'm not going to muddy up this post by listing all the differences between a compound bow and a long bow. I just want to make the point that pretty much the only thing that the two have in common that a crossbow does not, is they are both hand held and hand drawn. Other than that they are day and night. I bring this up because at one point in our history this "new and different" bow was trying to inch it's way into bow hunting and was eventually accepted. By doing this the whole face of bow hunting was changed. Some say for the worse and some say for the better but all agree it was changed. I know you don't see the differences to be that big now, but you are used to compounds. Imagine how strange and different they must have looked back then? Hell look at some pictures of the first compound bows, they still look strange

But, the bowhunting community opened their collective arms to them and here we are today. Where would we be if they didn't?

I only make this comparison between the long bow and compound bow to get some of you to think "outside" the box if only for a second or two. I am not basing my argument on it (I left that for the similarities between the crossbow and the compound bow) because it IS so selective. I just wanted to give you something else that you can add to the whole thought process.


Please try to see it as I do. After factoring in all of the similarities in the one case and the differences in the other case. I can't help but deduct that a crossbow is more bow like than anything else.

Then add in the whole dictionary definition thing on top of all that. Is it really that far of a stretch.....is it?

BigJ71

Instead of trying to kill it why don't you add your perspective to it?

ELKINMTCWB

A crossbow CANNOT go from being a legal bow and arrow in Arkasnas and cross the border into Kansas and become a NOT bow and arrow based soley on state laws.

I sure dout ARKASNAS sould lead the way for the reast of the states [&o] I beleave this would be a sad day [] This is a good state to buy srate lumber in


Do you know why you DO NOT look for a virgin wife in ARKASNAS? If she is not good enough for her brother,she is not good enough for you.

MNRut

Holy Crap! This is still going![&:]

MNRut

Holy Crap! This is still going![&:]

davidmil

OK, I could give a hoot less about what someone hunts with. I prefer to use my compound right now, I started with a recurve 35 years ago and took several deer with it. I have a recurve I'm practicing up with to use again. What someone else uses to hunt isn't going to make or break my hunt. I hunt for me and no one else. I don't blame my failures on anyone else. I bow hunt during muzzleloader and gun seasons. It's a personal thing. If someone wants to use a Xbow that's fine. Me, I don't like them....but that's me. I don't chose this weapon or that one to make someone else happy. If I fail it's not someone elses fault.... it's my own. If someone wants to get it legalized he'll have to fight to change the laws. Me, I'm going hunting.

davidmil

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Cougar Mag

I was at the new Gander Mountain store that opened up 45 miles from me today. While looking at bows there, I noticed a couple young men in their early twenties picking up and looking over what few crossbows they had. That reminded me of when I worked in Ohio one summer a few years ago. My boss(about the age of 32) was told by some of my co-workers that if he wanted to deer hunt he should buy a crossbow. He asked them why a crossbow and their answer was because its easy to shoot and hunt with a crossbow. Both of those co-workers were young and strong and admitted they neither had the patience nor desire to learn to shoot a recurve or compound.

That right there was enough to forever turn me against crossbows during archery season except for the physically unfit.

By the way........I locked the other thread started by Data as it was too similiar to this thread.

BigJ71

Thanks for you input.

You know for the longest time I thought just like you...and for the most part still do, because when it comes right down to it, we all hunt for ourselevs, our reasons, our enjoyment.

Then came this thread asking me if I could find a negative to crossbows? Well I can't. Oh, I can speculate about if there inclusion would hurt deer herds in states that have low numbers. And I can speculate about all the "slob" hunters that would be picking up crossbows and entering the woods. But without actually trying them in the archery season in a particular state, it's just that, speculation. There are just too many variables to contend with that can change the amount and type of crossbows hunters and thus their impact on the herds and sport of archery from state to state.

So I asked myself, "What would a rational thinking person do to find out?" My answer, look at the states that do allow crossbows in their archery season and see if any of the fears I have speculated could be found and thus a negative. So I did and I found none. Does this tell me that all of the states will end up the same way? No, BUT it is the best case study to be had and certianly should not be dismissed, because after all what else do we have becides speculation? Again, when it comes to the effect crossbows might have on an individual state, we can run all the numbers and factor all of the percentages we want but in the end it's still speculation.

So I have come to the conclusion that allowing crossbows into the states archery seasons would probably not hurt that state one bit. I say this based on the only hard evidence I could find. Furthermore it would be irresponsible of me to come to a conclusion based on speculation, percentages and numbers when there is a better case study to be had. In the absence of a better case study and all you have is speculation, percentages and numbers then you have to go with that. I'm not saying to ignore them because some things can be learned, but unfortunately it's not very reliable.

That being said, I can say with reasonable amount of confidence, there is no negatives to crossbows, as far as their effect on a state and it's archery season. If someone has hard evidence to prove otherwise I will entertain it.