Rickmur

changed my mind on what I had to say

nodog

Well if your not shooting the deer you should see more.

Pretty safe bet.

rybohunter

This is an interesting postion, I can argue with both exremes of the debate here.

1st atlas and sylvan.
You guys are grasping at straws with the premise of making killing a mature buck too easy. Going from say one mature buck per square mile to 3 mature bucks per square mile may make it statistically easier, but BY NO MEANS does it become "easy".

Txhighrack
Outside of texas, the stuff you talk about, see, and experience just ain't reality to the rest of the country. That's why so many people view you and that type of strict management as arrogant. To me it seems like you just grow deer until you feel like shooting one that reaches a level you deem appropriate. If you grew up and lived here you'd understand. As much as I'd like to see more people passing on younger bucks, I would never want to see it reach a strict plan that just grows deer artificially.

atlasman

Just following the logic that trophy hunters want their harvest to be as hard as possible so they get the most satisfaction out of it and feel like the best of the best. More trophy bucks means it is easier to kill one.........less means it is harder. If they really are after a challenge they should want less mature bucks out there and not more right??



Now you have.

Antler Eater

This is another one of those arguements that will never be laid to rest. There are strong feelings on both sides of the fence. In reality both sides have some good points. Like so many things in life I feel that a person can have the "right" opinion on an issue but be "wrong" in their attitude concerning the issue. I see that on both sides here.

If a person holds the hunting rights to the land they hunt and want to set strict standards on what will be harvested, so be it, that is great. They shouldn't be maligned in any way for making that decision. By the same token that person should not look down on anyone who hunts ground that receives high pressure and does not feel the need to be so selective.

I have been lucky enough to experience in some degree each scenario. For years I hunted in a State that when hunting season rolled around there could be as many as 700,000 hunters in the field on any given day. Access to any type of private ground was at a major premium. As a single father raising two children, there was no room in the budget to lease ground and not a lot of time to spend in the field. In addition I found that pressured deer learned fast and even a two year old was wise beyond his years. Being successful was not easy. I can't remember what my record was for not seeing any deer from the stand but there could be a long dry spell between even seeing a deer. Nevertheless I eventually reached the point where it was no longer satisfying to kill a spike or forky. They got a free pass. Though I hunted long and hard for a "book buck" I never had an opportunity at one. However, I would get at least one buck (we could legally take two) every year although it might be a six point.

When I moved back to my home State of Iowa it was easy to see the difference between the two locations when it came to hunting opportunities. According to the numbers published by the DNR I was now in a State that held only about 10% of the deer population that my former residence held. However they were not near as pressured. It makes a huge difference. I don't know how many deer I have literally spit on as they milled around under my stand. Not one of them has ever flinched as they were hit by my saliva. That number includes branch antlered bucks as well as a mature doe with twin fawns in tow.

The point being is this, the deer in Iowa were not dumb, they were just not as educated to pressure as some of the deer I have hunted in the past. For me personally I would feel guilty if I shot one of the young bucks. It just is not something I would get any enjoyment out of, therefore I abstain from killing them. However for some of my friends that are just starting out, I have no problem with them taking one. It is all a learning process. After they have a couple under their belt and have a feel for what they are doing I encourage them to take a doe instead of a young buck. I think the benefits of harvesting does are obvious to anyone that studies game management. If that makes me an elitist than I am truly guilty.

Ego is a funny thing. It is intoxicating, it impairs one's judgement as well. In addition, it is no respecter of persons, it rears its ugly head for both the QDM people and the people that oppose QDM. So much of life is not what your looking at, but what you see.

On one of Bill Jordan's videos I remember watching in unbelief as a guy stalked a nice Texas buck that had obviously seen the bow hunter. Though it would watch the advancing hunter, it didn't run, it walked a short distance away and began feeding again. This game of cat and mouse went on for a short while. This buck was not a pen raised deer (though it was on one of the huge fenced ranches they hunt) but it clearly had never been subject to pressure as the guy (and the camera man) were able to get within bow range in fairly open country and harvest it. That scenario could never be pulled off successfully in most parts of the country.

On the flip side even in high pressured areas I could manage to kill six point or better and still let the spikes and forkhorns walk.

To think all QDM people are elitists is wrong. For QDM people to think the results of their philosophy will be equally successful in all parts of the country is just as wrong. To fanatically and exclusively support either extreme without knowing all the facts, is to handicap yourself and your perspective.

TXhighrack

Antler Eater, well said.......


Atlasman,

I dont think I've read any post on this thread that claims that a trophy hunter wants his game to be as hard as possible to harvest. I know what your trying to claim, but your really not making much sense. I've taken alot of nice bucks in my day and I have never claimed to be the "best of the best" or pounded my chest in any way. One of the biggest bucks that I've ever taken was also one of the easiest deer that I have ever killed, yet his head hangs on the wall with the rest of them and I remember and relive the hunt every time I look at him. Trying to hunt and keep tabs on one buck all year and finally getting him at the last moment is fun, but I'll take an easy hunt (luck) any day of the week.

Rybohunter:

I understand what your saying. The way I hunt, the things that I see, and the things that I do might be "foreign" to you, but its also the other way around. I cant relate to 90% of the post that I read on these forums, which I'm sure would be the case if you went to a Texas only site or an African only site (assuming you've never been/hunted in Africa). Honestly there isint anything "articial" about our management practices or our deer. Sure some ranches take it to the extreme, but thats the exception not the rule. Alot of the trophy bucks that I've harvested where deer that where passed on in previous years and aloud to reach maturity. But on the other hand I probably have taken just as many trophy bucks that were mature animals that had never been seen before, but appeared while I was hunting (mainly chasing a doe during the rut or rattled in during the rut). I know this might be hard for you and others to believe but to me there is no greater joy in deer hunting then to be able to pass on a particular buck and allow him to maturity and when he does reach the peak of his prime you are able to harvest him. There is a great sense of pride and respect when ever you harvest a buck like this. Just the restraint and self control that it takes is trophy enough.

atlasman

Read the thread.......it is full of phrases like "more challenging" "better" "best" and claims that hunting mature deer is the toughest thing for a hunter to accomplish and something we should all "evolve" into.

Right after that is when the same people say that we should all do our part to make that easier...........doesn't really make sense.

realmfg

OK, stop this thread. It is so stupid. First of all people are going to shoot what they want in the moment, it doesnt matter what we write. Second, people hunt for different reason, for horns, for meatt, Leave peopl alone. This forum is the best thing i have found for advice but shoot what you want unless you are unlawful. Food is food and a trophy is a trophy is different in everyones eyes, why fight on here. This is a stupid thread, we are all good bow hunters why hunt how we want to hunt. No need to fight abiut it. I shot a 130 class 2 1/2 year old and i would bet on the guy who would pass him up. Shoot what is good for your land. Dont get wrapped up in all these guys who shoot deer on land that costs 5000 a deer.

nodog

Auhh come on. Don't be like that. Let people talk. It makes them better people. Sometimes I'll write something and read it later and think "yea, that's right" and other times think "man, I'm a moron".

Wow. 5000 a deer. That could be a steal. Now if that 5000 was spent to hunt on a 5000 arcer property that's only 1 per arcer. I'd snap that up if I were you. LOL

Sylvan

I'm not trying to tell anybody not to practice QDM, AR, PBS or whatever makes you happy. I won't argue that if your primary goal is to harvest a big rack that these methods won't increase your odds. Of course they will. My point from the beginning was that it isn't everybody's primary goal. Not only isn't it everybody's primary goal but some of us believe that placing so much emphasis on killing a big rack is actually harmfull to the sport. Also, I'm getting a little tired of the QDM,AR,PBS advocates assuming that it either is or should be everybody's primary goal. I'm tired of some of them looking down their arrogant noses and trying to convice others that the way they hunt is, though legal, somehow shamefull and their views are superior. I appolgize if I get a little touchy and sarcastic at times.