That's nothing but pro-crossbow propaganda. In other words, a flat lie. Bowhunters welcome other people to hunt in bow season, with open arms. They just want those newcomers to shoot BOWS.

Art,

I just don't get why you care so much what someone that you are never going to see, hear or even know exists is shooting? Why is it so important to you to be able to legislate and control how someone else hunts? If it won't have any affect on you anyway then why do you care?

WOW - What spirited debate! I am from OHIO and have bowhunted for 10 years with a crossbow. I just purchased a Compound and will be hunting with it next season. A crossbow is not the GUN everyone makes it out to be. It is loud, very heavy and without a rest - difficult to hold steady. A good compound is very quiet & they are much easier to hold steady because the pull of the bow anchors it in your arms naturally. I won't take a shot over 25 yards with my crossbow because it is not reliable. I don't have enough experience with my compound yet, but many tell me they feel comfortable out to 40.

Lastly, I can speak for OHIO..we need as many hunters in the field as we can get. Hunters are a dying breed compared to society 50 years ago & our heard is busting at the seams. So, any way to get a person in the field ethically is a good idea!

Arthur, this has been a very civil discussion so far. Please help us keep it that way.

Well said. Why does my hunting cause you a problem? Why is your way the only legitimate way?

I am not a big fan of them opening up the handgun season to muzzle loaders and shotguns too. Mostly because a lot of people that were handgun hunters are now competeing for a limited number of permits with people who already had a shotgun and a muzzleloader season. Sure, many of the handgun hunters were just using the handguns because they had too but still, I just don't like it.

As far as high power rifles in Illinois. Out here in the prairie I think I would have to get a concrete bunker to hide in if they allowed high power rifles. Although it has always struck me as odd that you can shoot a Coyote with just about anything and they are running around the same areas that the deer are. My guess is that it is a numbers thing as far as hunters out an about increasing danger of accidental shootings. Now, maybe rifles like .45-70's that don't fly quite like the more modern .270's and their like but I don't know.

Silentassassin, I know you don't understand. Over the past few years, it's become apparent to me that you have the technical background but don't have the slightest idea of how bow seasons were established, or the history or philosophy of bowhunting. You need to educate yourself on those points before you'll ever understand where I'm coming from.

But to answer your question, in part... The point of the matter is bow seasons were made for BOW hunters, not crossbow hunters. It's a matter of PRINCIPLE, a word that seems to have little meaning to many people these days.

A direct parallel to what we're talking about. Muzzleloader seasons were started for buckskinners, folks who shot the old original muzzleloaders or modern replicas. Along comes inlines, as a way to circumvent the original intent of the season and make it easier for guys who wanted to hunt the season and not have to deal with the limitations of that kind of weapon. Now, it's hard to find a buckskinner type guy. Most everyone is shooting their modern scoped inlines, which have better range and accuracy than your basic 30-30. They'd taken over and changed a season into something it was not intended to be.

Fact of the matter is the inline manufacturers simply took a page from bowhunting's history and followed suite. Inlines have done nothing more than what compounds did to bow seasons. Crossbows will make matters even worse. I can't do anything about compounds, but I can darn sure do my part to keep crossbows out of the picture.

What we've got with the crossbow contingent is a group of people who want to play in a particular hunting season, but don't have the principles or discipline to use the weapons approved for that season. Then they start bawling and squawling, crying that they're being victimized by people who insist they remain true to the spirit of the season. Sounds like a little kid that wants to play baseball with his friends and runs home to tell momma they won't let him play. Of course, he leaves out the part that he wants to play with a basketball instead of a baseball and the other kids don't.

You made a point in our last discussion over this issue that I don't hunt any more. That's right, but it's not that I don't want to hunt. Simple fact of the matter is I can't walk far enough to get off the beaten track on public land and don't have the money to get on a Texas lease. So, if you say I don't want to see every bush within a hundred yards of the road taken over by a crossbow hunter, and say that's a selfish motive, you're right. It wouldn't bother me in the least if those guys were shooting BOWS though. You also used your dad's situation as an example of why you want crossbows. Know what? From where I'm standing it looks to me like you've got your own selfish motive.

Arthur, I can't/won't argue that with you. I am not much of a scholar in this reagrd. However, the past is exactly that and things change and evolve. In those days hunters as a group were not a dying breed as they are now. Therefore, we have to take a different approach or this past time that we love so much is going to fall by the way side. I honestly see your point. I just have a hard time supporting a law that would keep other hunters from pursuing this passion that I care so much about.

What's that? Do you mean they created a more accurate and deadly weapon that creates a much greater chance of making a quick, clean, and ethical kill? I for one am glad inlines have come along becasue they war stories of countless deer being wounded by the older style muzzleloaders were quite nausiating.

I have much more respect for your point of view when you just say it out right. However, your fears are unwarranted. I live in Arkansas and honestly don't see 5 guys a year in the woods with crossbows. It just isn't going to happen like that.

Arthur, that's like saying woman were being selfish because they wanted the right to decide for themselves to vote or not. I remembered how much you liked this point last time so I thought I would make it again.

Since you are taking the time and effort to insult me and other crossbow hunters, I hope you can take the time to explain what you mean. Explain your high and mighty principals to me. I make clean, quick kills, I hunt on my own private land and I have zero impact on any other hunters. I spend 8-10 weekends a year scouting my hunting area and working to improve the area for wildlife. I have worked with my family and the hunters on the 5,000 acres surrounding our ranch to institute quality deer management in our area. I have passed on dozens of shootable 4-6 point bucks and shot spikes when I knew a great trophy was just around the corner in order to improve our breeding lines. I've never taken a shot I did not think I could make and I have never left a wounded animal in the field. Explain to me my lack of principals and discipline. The methods I, or any other hunter, choose have no impact on you or other hunters. Why does what I do create a problem for you? Saying "it's the principle" is shorthand for "I'm ignorant of the realities of the situation, have no real information, and formed my opinion based on my gut reaction to something new and different". If you have an answer for my questions I'm more than willing to continue this debate. Otherwise, have a nice day.

I gotta go with what 1865 said ArthurP since my circumstance is similar .

I originally bought my crossbow for backyard plinking , and it was only a couple of years later that I found out that I could actually hunt with it , albeit under extremely limited circumstance because of the attitudes of bow hunters like you . I also now hunt with a 50# recurve to round out my "arsenal" , which you were more than glad to give me advice on since it's the type of weapon you favor , but I never launched an arrow in the woods before buying my crossbow . In fact , the idea of buying a vert bow never occured to me until well after I got the crossbow .

That statement about bow hunters welcoming others is a total crock of sheit in my state , most when asked will freely admit that they would love to see less people in the woods during their season , not more . The reason most commonly stated is exactly what you said earlier , they don't want somebody using a different weapon , that and they just can't handle competition . Here's a flash for y'all high and mighty archer types , it isn't your season . Yes , people like you worked very hard to get archery only seasons , and those folks deserved what they fought for , you're doing little more than ride their coattails while expounding about "tradition" and "values" . Arthur , since you're well under 80 years old that statement applies to you too , others fought for it , not you .

Tradition ? All the compound shooters can withold comment right there , they were the crossbows of their time , which was only a short time ago . People as old as ArthurP can well remember Hollis Allen's Arrow Launching Device and how it was vilified back then , ironically with most of the same lameassed arguments that many of you will shortly fling at me . Save them , until you're holding the draw weight that I am with no let off you're no better than a crossbow shooter or somebody using a draw lock . Sorry if the truth hurts , but facts are facts . Newer bows with up to 90% let off are little different from draw locks , or crossbows .

Trad shooters , many(most) of you look down on both compounds and crossbows , in many cases simply because you think they're easier to shoot . So F'n what ! Am I less of a hunter than you ? No , I'm not . I hunt public and private land , and now my own , and I'll use whatever my state deems legal to use whether you like it or not . It's not about tradition because tradition isn't always right , it's about hunting , and more importantly choice . I refuse to take a step backward because you don't like what I hunt with , and if you don't like then get over it , it's not up to you . Make your own hunting as hard as you want it to be , that's your choice , but keep your nose out of mine .